Cody USF4 General Discussion

cody

#1261

Bull.

There are way way way way way too many issues in regards to reliability, ability to get the knife, retain the knife, damage output lost in neutral, damage output lost in frame traps, safe jumps lost, defensive tools lost, offensive tools lost, corner carry lost, mobility lost, metergaining lost, ect over the limited number of things gained.

Knife is pretty good in specific situations and exceptional in one or two. You’re fooling yourself or trying to fool others if you think or claim the knife is "amazing

Even in your own matches I’ve seen you rarely are as effective with the knife as without as you lose access to badstone, focus, and crLP/clsMP/clsHP all tools you use very effectively (For me it’s the loss of F+MP and crLP/crHP that really hurts but you are really good with meaty clsHP and closeMP tic throws as well as badstone zoning). Especially the loss of badstone and focus hurts your own playstyle in a ton of matches I’ve seen. You either end up giving up a bunch of the stage, getting counterhit during the startup of a move, doing less chip than you would have with badstones, or spending more time trying to get the knife after losing it than time pressuring the opponent.

It’s simply not consistent enough or effective enough even when it is consistent to be called anything better than “situationally useful” or “pretty good in certain matchups” certainly not “amazing” if it did more chip, or Cody had Dudley walk speed (not even Vega, just Dudley) AND he could use focus and F+MP then yeah it’d be pretty darn good, still a situational tool but one that has a variety of situations it’s consistently as good as not using it in addition to the couple it is better.

I advocate using the knife in several matchups if you are having trouble with specific aspects of them (using knife crMP to counter ERyu fishing with his crMK for instance can be effective), I love exploring with the knife and trying to find ways to make it more useful. It’s a mechanic I think has some super interesting possibilities gameplay wise beyond simply being Gen’s stance change but only allowed in super specific situations. In the end though, it’s not where it needs to be and certainly didn’t get the changes it needed to be there.

btw, All of Cody’s crouching normals with the knife are considered standing.
Also the hit/hurtbox with the sMK with knife is basically the same overall. The thing is that the attack reaches farther, the hurtbox ALSO reaches farther. It’s not “better” than sMK without knife in terms of hit/hurtbox it’s better in terms of reach allowing it to be used from farther away but the actual ratio of the hitbox vs hurtbox positions and size is the same.

The fact knife throw / fake stone / fake knife doesn’t cause proximity blocking until it’s actually active is incredibly frustrating in specific matchups vs characters with fast backwards walk speeds, only knife and badstone (while charging) do that of any projectile in the game. All others cause proximity blocking on the first startup frame. Even Yun/Yang’s Feint Palm strikes cause proximity block.


#1262

I think i’ve picked up the knife in a total of 0.5% of all the matches i’ve ever played. Honestly feel it is a waste to even pick it up.
Some people seem to have success with it though but marginally. It does too little for what you actually give up. and how easily you lose it.

If others like playing with the knife and can make it work, great! Personally, i’m pretty indifferent to it.
I look at it as a prop of a stage haha, mostly forget it’s even there.


#1263

There are certainly a couple of matches it’s worth using, almost exclusively for sMP which is a fucking amazing normal, crMP is solid too but I wish it was 5F or 6F given it can’t be canceled and is only +1 on hit and only 80 damage but the fact the hurtbox is off the ground on his arm and it has great reach is good vs specific low attacks that have small hitboxes. Sadly, MOST lows have decently tall hitboxes that will still strike your arm (or your F+HK) but vs moves like Rolento’s crMK or ERyu’s crMK or Balrog’s crHK it can be quite useful, especially since some of them the hurtbox is too low on the extended limb to get hit by Cody’s normal crLP/crMP without knife.

Hawk the knife is quite useful now that badstone is less effective due to the faster start up of spires. Typically I zone mostly with normals in that matchup now anyways. crHP w/knife, crMP w/knife, sMP w/knife are all very good in the MU and the tools you give up like badstone, B+MP, crLP buffers, F+MP, or focus attack aren’t THAT important against Hawk’s toolset.

Hakan you pretty much use the knife exclusively for sMP with knife and crMP with knife once he is out of oil, the 3F crLP is helpful but not too important. Honestly, once Hakan runs out of oil I’d ditch the knife because you do more damage/whiff punish better and stronger and are more mobile without the knife due to focus dashing. You def want to use sMP with the knife to keep him from focus dash normal canceling you when he has oil though.

Dudley you can go either way. Knife is useful because you can more easily keep him out but you can’t keep up with his damage or mobility or whiff punish him nearly as well with the knife.

Abel it’s really only for the 3F crLP which Abels can bait or trade their clsHP with after a step kick on block but the sMP/crMP is a solid way to combat his F+MK and armored moves. However I find using crLP xx MK Ruffian is far better for fighting his F+MK as well as prempting his farLK as that combo does more damage, builds more meter, and push Abel more towards the corner keeping you from getting cornered.

Hugo it’s a toss up, knife normals are all really good vs his large body but badstone and pre-empting claps using crLP xx MK Ruffian are really good too.

Every other match I think that you might have a couple of rare situations the knife is more useful but overall it’s better to have the tools you give up when you pick up the knife. At best you get a match like Rose where it can be nice to pick up the knife and get a couple of swings off to make your opponent uneasy about their footsies spacing since the knife has different ranges and most people don’t know them but it’s a tool that you want to use only of the opportunity arises in those matches. Get it, swing it a few times and don’t be afraid to lose it, don’t chase it down.


#1264

The matchups you mentioned i can definately see how it’ll benefit me, but my entire playstyle is basically inching my way until i can get the cody train going lol.
Have to play pretty different also when picking up the knife, i can play the footsie game somewhat, definately not my strongest point though. Hawk matchup feels more annoying indeed, purely because if that bs spire haha.
Cody does well against normals that are a bit higher, long rang crouching attacks are frustrating though with cr.lk can definately make it work.

Maybe i’ll look into the knife a bit more in the mentioned matchups, Dudley for instance i cannot space myself well enough against good player that use his st.hp, walkspeed doesnt allow for that, so maybe with knife i can now proactively poke instead of looking for counterpokes. Maybe a whole new world will go open for me when i pickup the knife haha.


#1265

Where did that Combofiend quote come from? That’s up there with ‘Yun has a hard time getting in’.


#1266

I thought it was a joke myself, I’ve never heard it.


#1267

According to ultradavid, Cody is Dan’s only favorable matchup

:stuck_out_tongue:


#1268

Why is that? I don’t play many Dans since we only have like 1 here in NorCal, never played him either.

And is is it really 6-4? Or does eventhubs not allow things like 5.5-4.5


#1269

Ehubs doesn’t allow 0.5s

Also don’t you mean “socal” because Ultradavid is from LA and NorCal has several Codys. BJ, Harrison, and you are all norcal


#1270

There is a local Dan player here in NorCal that is somewhat known, and I have never played him.

And ah, I see. Anyways, I don’t know much about the MU to put a number on it.


#1271

In the second part of their Christmas ep they go over all the characters and how they feel they stack up in the latest version. They both admit to having no clue about Cody:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VA9eZlRcSY


#1272

What else is new…although, to be fair, apparently neither does Capcom


#1273

Not surprising to say the least, Cody is a bit of an obscure character at high level play, and imo inconsistent in his results. Cody is simply overshadowed by characters that have either better offense or a far better neutral game, which are a lot. You can get away with zonk gimmicks at lower level, however shit doesn’t fly at higher levels. To make him work then you need extremely good fundamentals…and willing to take real risks. Not a winning combination.

Nobody who has a voice in the FGC seems to understand Cody, and neither at Capcom.


#1274

I wouldn’t say no one with a voice in the FGC doesn’t understand him. The problem is the people with said voices don’t main Cody or aren’t playing Cody to start enough buzz. I’m sure Justin will tell you everything we say/know but he’s not playing Cody so no one will really care. Momochi already stated in that Japanese round table a few months back that Cody’s missing something. It’s the reason why he doesn’t play Cody anymore. Momochi was about as close to a voice for Cody we’ll get.

But what really doesn’t help is when most of the people with voices who do talk about other characters already have no actual clue on the character or enough to say anything worthwhile. Along with people trying to commentate Cody matches more than likely having no clue fully on what’s going on outside of “frame trap, ex zonk, f+MP”


#1275

Cody matches must have some of the highest commentator error to minute ratios going.

I don’t know if I agree that top players like Justin know everything we know about the character. Why would they waste time on him when they’re rarely going to encounter him and they’ll generally be able to beat the player on fundamentals anyway? I don’t think Cody is one of those characters where you really have to know the matchup anyway.


#1276

i’m not saying Justin knows everything about Cody. But considering how he does goof with most of the cast to some extent in the past or just for his own personal knowledge, I wouldn’t put it past him knowing some tidbits. But Cody’s not a character you see as much as say Cammy/E.Ryu/Gief/etc. so you wouldn’t know.

I’d always expect Justin to know info on less played characters out of any top players just because he’s willing to break stuff down or goof around with side characters to cover his main characters bad matchups (or to just goof around.)


#1277

I’m not even sad by 1.04 patch. It’s just what I’ve come to expect from capcom with regards to cody. Changes that no cody player asks for and as usual end up nerfing him “accidently” in some area. I think most cody players have accepted that they will never make cody good.


#1278

Your avatar says sums it up pretty well how we all feel about Cody unfortunately.


#1279

Found this old post I never read which really shows the depressing thought processes behind how Capcom handles Cody


#1280

It’s funny how much they bring up the knife and how little it’s actually used.