It never even occurred to me that Bad Spray had any invincibility, although clearly it runs out way before it’s active. The main Cody SRK wiki page doesn’t list any invincibility, not sure if you’re involved in updating that.
I am, and it’s a long arduous task (I’m doing ALL of the wiki). Thing is that the startup on it is really innocuous because it just looks like he is getting up. the prima guide only lists the startup from the time invincibility wears off but the move actually starts while Cody is still on his back. Back before they added the projectile/throw invincibility it was quite easy to simply throw Cody while he was still flat on his back, actually the CPU would do that a lot if you tried it too close.
Hehe, I probably didn’t even know Bad Spray existed when I played through Arcade mode with Cody
The level 3 Zonk juggle info is also out of date on that page btw.
I know, the stuff I’ve updated isn’t uploaded yet. Entire wiki for each individual character will be updated at once. I’ve even split badspray into two moves dictating face up vs face down frame data. The stuff like the advanced sections data, the basic moves section, the change log section will be updated on their own individually however.
Here is a zoomed out pic of what it looks like that I’m working on
Keep up the good work
Btw, I forgot to mention, though it’s implied from my previous posts. I had found all of the unlisted Cody changed in 1.04 without Ultradif. The F+HK lower body invincibility and EX Criminal Upper stuff were only ones not listed. The only other changes were minor facial animation tweaks. They seem to do that a lot, like most of the changes to chars in 1.05 are simply face animation tweaks or some sort of super minor graphic tweak that doesn’t change gameplay whatsoever.
Did you ever work out what the changes to super were supposed to achieve? I was looking at them in ultradiff the other day and still don’t understand… Seems like the Honda LK super dropout was the only noticeable result!
Many of the hitboxes are designed so that if a specific part of the attack whiffs or hits it skips to a different frame in the move or the alternate variation of the move. Some hitboxes were expanded as well or given more active frames. It’s a lot more consistent now even if it still fails in a number of situations.
Talked about this a number of times before but finally took a picture.
I REALLY don’t think this was needed. So many other characters have hitboxes similar and still retain the 100 damage and have decent (though not as good as Cody) active frames. Akuma/Oni/Juri/Evil Ryu come to mind. Would have been nice to keep since Cody has to land so deep w/jMK to combo to clsHP or crHP he can’t do an ambiguous crossup with it.
Nice he can still crossup with careful spacing though ;3
My SF4 days are pretty much behind me and I’m sitting pretty waiting for SF5 atm. But I still lurk this sub-forum and I gotta say Eternal the work you put in is insane. Mad respect for putting in the hours with Cody and getting all of this data for us, it’s appreciated!
I’m actually doing the same to an extent for every character as of late since I’m combing through the files and stuff for the wiki. Not nearly as heavily as I do for Cody of course but still doing it.
My hope though is mostly that people utilize this stuff in either effective or at least interesting ways. I try and come up with reasonable uses myself of course but it’s up to better players to work it into their game. I’m really happy to see people using PBS now instead of waiting for the rocks to be thrown into the air first like most people were doing before (if they used it at all)
So BJ has been mostly playing Guy as of late. How do you feel about Guy compared to Cody? They have fairly similar gameplans and some normals remind me of each other, but they certainly approach the match from a different angle. Honestly I think Cody is better in any match where you need to keep the opponent out (Gief/hakan/hugo/hawk/honda) and does a little bit better versus shotos but otherwise I feel Guy trumps Cody thanks to mobility, corner carry, higher damage, a legitimate high low, and better mixups. Cody has more versatility though and IMO better jump ins other than Guy’s elbow drop.
Asking cause Guy+Cody are characters I often see people switch between, not just because of their relationship I think.
Guy is better than Cody, only thing that really hurts Guy is pretty short range normals and his whiffing issues which kinda got fixed in Ultra.
I use both and the pressure that Guy can apply is better but he takes a lot more work getting in and struggles against grapplers, he’s also a character you really have to take risks with, whereas Cody can kinda apply some safer pressure and still get damage.
I’d go Guy B tier and Cody B-? They both have flaws but they’re not bad characters, but it would take character mastery to take a major with either of them.
Guy takes more work getting in?!
What about the fact Guy’s sMPxxsHPxxLP Hozanto is a trueblock string and only -1F on block. Also Guy’s farMP outranges most of Cody’s normals, including ALL of Cody’s special cancelable normals. FarMK is about as far as Cody’s farMK but with a stupid good hitbox. Guy’s farHP/HK out range everything except Cody’s farHK and Guy’s farHP/HK are significantly faster on startup and recovery. Guy’s crHP reaches surprisingly far, farther than Cody’s farMK usually. Also don’t forget, Guy has a slide (and special move slide).
Guy has run, and bushin flip, and elbow drop to get in. EX Hozanto is only 10F startup and goes half+ screen nearly instantly. When you take into consideration EX Run with 2-3 hits of armor (2 for run, 1 more for stop) he actually can get in pretty easily once he has meter. The area he has trouble with is getting in vs fireball characters his only options are very carefully spaced Hozanto’s or instant run-slide which has to be done from somewhat far away or use EX.
I’d say the biggest issues Guy has is jumping over fireballs safely (Elbow drop shortens jump arc but his jump is still kind of floaty even with the elbow drop. His massively lack of active frames on most of his normals (almost everything is 2F only) and in general, Guy’s ultras aren’t near as good as Cody’s. Guy really needs the corner (which he does get very easily) to utilize U1, and his U2 is pretty short range even if it is a 1F punish move it has barely the range of a normal throw so A LOT of stuff can’t be punished at all and you need to gamble on it being used like as an anti safe jump or using it as a reversal vs frame traps.
I think Cody’s versatility in how he can use his normals exceeds Guy’s and combined with Cody’s Zonk and badstone Cody is a quite a bit better at far mid to far range. Cody I think fights grapplers, shotos, and MAYBE Dudley better than Guy (Dudley might be equal since Guy has way better wakeup options and mobility), while I think Guy fights everyone else better than Cody. Once Guy gets into about his farMK / farMP range it’s equal or even advantage Guy in any matchup Cody isn’t really effectively able to zonk between button xx special. Guy also puts the opponent into the corner way way easier and gets even more out of the corner thanks to run stop and crossup or elbow drop or command throw mixups being even harder to see
I should probably elaborate on why I think Guy is tough work getting in with. I just think his tools suck unless you’re close and can start the run/stop game.
The Flip is easily countered if your opponent is awake, EX Flip is a lot better but that’s an entire bar. EX Run/Slide can be made safe I think but that’s a bar as well. The only feasible get-in I found was st.mp buffers, but that button is really easy to whiff punish. His air approach isn’t all it’s made up to be IMO, and his floaty jump is bad when you want jump-ins or fireball dodging.
I always found my ability to get in with Cody far exceeded that of my Guy, Cody’s forward moving normals made it easier for me to close the gap whilst applying pressure and I know the ranges a hell of a lot better so I rarely eat a whiff punish. I guess I blame it on my Guy just being worse than my Cody as to why I think this way.
But I just look at the surface layers, there’s a few more thing that require a lot more insight and less bias on both characters to properly dissect them and judge how good of a character they are. I still think Guy trumps Cody regardless of my opinion on Guy taking more effort to win. Ultra Guy is really solid.
I agree farMP is pretty whiff punishable as he keeps the arm out for a while but as long as you got the spacing down to make sure it’s blocked or hits then it’s really really good. It’s also an amazing whiff punish because it leads to more damage and more corner carry than what Cody usually gets in those situations.
I think one thing about Guy I kind of glossed over is that his standard BnBs require a lot more 1F links than Cody which results in more opportunities for failure.
BTW, vs a bunch of characters Guy can do regular run - overhead (both hits) and link to crLK for big damage. It’s possible to do run - neck flip from outside of Ryu’s crLK range and even if Ryu does nothing and gets hit crouching you can link to crLK - farMP xx HP - LP Hozanto - FADC - U1 for 500 damage off of an overhead even mid screen.
I actually started playing Guy as a secondary after Evo last year and I dunno. Guy picks up some of the slack Cody wants to do in most matchups. So I can understand and see why you’d go between the 2. You still do overall the same thing with Guy except you have the walkspeed and better frame trap buttons on block (cl.mk, cr.mp come to mind.), and you have a 3 frame linkable low. s.MK is one of the best normals in the game to poke, st.MP is another “one of the best in the game” for whiff punish hit confirms.
Like…it’s generally Cody but better options moving forward and controlling the midscreen area with your normals that actually lead into what you want to do. (knockdown, possible safe jump setups, frame traps) You have more chances to play your style and what you want to do as opposed to hoping you play the way you want to with Cody (aka frame traps and hoping that don’t crouch tech/throw my 7-8F normals)
I’m still new to SF4 (~250 hours) and I have to wonder how you guys can stick with this character. I really like cody but it’s really frustrating to play him. His wake-up game sucks and whenever I try to move up in rank, I come across mix-up heavy characters with good set-ups that beat me once I’ve been knockeddown. I like frame traps but it’s a risky strat due to how random players can be online, but whenever I’m getting pressured it’s difficult to get ex zonk out and crouchteching leaves my foot sticking out while characters instant dive kick or hop kick me. I’m not giving up on this character but I want to show my respect to anyone who is able stick with this guy.
Been playing him for 2 or 3 years now, no need to switch to anyone else.
Also I get nervous in a serious environment playing anyone but Cody