Cody's Rocks - An Alpha 3 Player's Perspective

Well, with the supposed update coming out for arcade SSF4 and DLC, there’s a chance Cody might get some tweaks, so, hopefully, someone at Capcom shares a similar viewpoint.

I posted a list of changes I’d like to see, but I’ll just pick out the Cody-related ones for this thread:

-Cody’s rocks need to arc in to the air like they did in Alpha 3, or they need to drastically decrease the start-up on them
-Get rid of the delay on the release when holding Cody’s rocks
-Cody LK ruffian needs to cover less distance with less start-up, so it can be safer on block from mid-range
-Cody’s walk speed needs to be faster, especially his back walk
-Cody’s uf/ub. FP, s. RH and hopkick start-up could stand to be a bit faster
-Give Cody’s s. MK a bit more range. The animation on it right now is very misleading.
-Cody’s hopkick should go over bodies/throws like Claw’s and like it did in A3
-Cody’s LP criminal upper should be safe on block
-Cody’s EX zonk should be throw invincible

http://shoryuken.com/f315/things-should-patched-arcade-version-console-update-244791/index10.html#post9281760

Tell me what you think.

hmmm I like the arc idea… start up is fine maybe 1 or 2 more frames faster would be nice on lp rocks.
lk ruffian is fine, walk speed would be nice but i’m more concerned with his back dash.

far. mk I agree that the hitbox should extend just a little tiny bit further but that’s not important. hopkick has +1 on block already so making it throw invincible might make it too powerful.
lp criminal shouldn’t be relied on for constant chip damage cuz it ends his pressure game.
ex zonk would be nice if it was throw invincible

When you hold onto your rocks, there shouldn’t be a eternity from you releasing the button and him actually throwing the damn things. If you actually bother to attempt to hang onto them, it’s a free punish half the time.

that’s realism in a game where the rest isn’t. he waits till the rocks fall into his hands before he throws them… sadly. also, without arc there is rarly the oppotunity to hit them while jumping

I have no room to speak, but I trust Kyokuji’s and Sabres opinion more so than most people who posted in here, and rocks do seems meh to me. What do I know though, I’m a Alpha 2 guy lol.

I don’t know if I’d say the LK ruffian is fine. That is his primary way of getting a knockdown and starting his okizeme. It can’t afford to be as unsafe as it is right now, especially since he moves so slowly in this game. Ruffian gives him mobility where he normally wouldn’t have it, so he depends a lot on it.

1 or 2 frames on LP rocks wouldn’t do anything. The rocks either need to be very fast on start-up like a hadouken or they need to arc up again. Having them in between like this makes them fairly lousy as a projectile, especially since they don’t cross the screen the way Rose or Chun’s do, so you can’t even follow them in as offensive shields.

LP criminal upper is not for chip, it’s for safe damage starting from a low (ie. c. LK).
Hopkick is +1, yes, but it’s also focus bait in this game. It went over throws and actually was considered OTG almost instantly in A3, and it wasn’t even close to being broken there.

Not… really. LP CU is for getting out of a blockstring without getting yourself into serious shit and trying to put yourself out of “HAY GUISE I HAV NO REVERSAL” range. The only real advantage to using CU at all over RK is if you’re really not sure and you have the meter to FADC out of it, which you can’t do with anything other than the range and standing-limited hk.RK. For that reason, it doesn’t necessarily end his pressure game either.

Just the same, ruffian isn’t for mobility as far as i can see. Its purpose is for an untechable knockdown so long as you’re in range to land a c.mp after a c.lp.

sadly, cody has no block string. his block string ends after c.lp, c.lp. there is a gap on block that lets you eat a mashed srk or spd etc.
still it would be good if it was safe on block. c.lk xx lp.cu is a pretty good poke.

btw, who came up with the shit that ex rk isnt projectial immune from the very begining? i can’t get over that fact. what are going on in theire minds?

“hey lets have him have an ex slide that is like lk but longer reachin”
“yeah, that’s a good idea”
“lets give it some projectal immunity aswell - it’s an ex move afterall.”
“yeah that sounds good… oh but dont forgot to make it having it only after 10 frames!!”

evil bastards!!! ^^

Well. That explains a lot.

Lk ruffian is fine because you shouldn’t use it alone by itself, its already easy to hit confirm into it. Cr.lp cr.lp cr.mp~lk ruffian, You got your okizeme game from one of the most easiest hit confirm from any character. If any of his ruffians should be buffed it would have to be ex. ruffian. Some start up invincibility would have saved my ass a couple times.

See with lp rocks I have to disagree with you. I think if it has a fast start up it might completely change the mechanics of how the rocks are currently designed. I’m loving that lp blocked (CH) cr. hp string and speeding its startup would mean a slower recovery. I don’t think it would be able to frame trap as effective because of it. Adding 1 or 2 frames might make it easier to regain momentum in a fireball war without changing too much of its properties. Arc would be lovely, but that’s why they gave him a hefty load of anti airs, B.MP is ridiculous.

LK/EX ruffian is a huge part of Cody’s footsie game. You’re missing out on a ton of openings if you’re not using it like that. There’s almost no point in comboing into LK ruffian when FP criminal upper does more damage, throws them closer to the corner and still allows for okizeme after.

Clashing projectiles is not the issue. LP/MP rocks are already more than fine for doing that. The issue is about controlling space and zoning.

Well, that’s why I advocate putting the arc back instead of just changing the start-up time.

c.lp, c.lp and that’s it?
can we do a 3rd c.lp to make some space if they are blocking?

so what is our viable blockstring? c.lk xx lp criminal upper?

the c.lp cancels into itself. you can do a 3rd without fear. also, not everyone is able to punish the following c.mp or c.lk. it 's a frametrap in this behaviour, and they will get counter hit if they mash something between. but most with a good reversal or comand grab can punish you for that.

c.lk xx lp cu is also punishable on block (after the cu) from most characters. but it’s most likely a strict frame window of 1 or 2 frames + depends on the range.

Actually lk ruffian is the better choice vs some characters you can safe jump OS BINGO!

i dont use light ruffian in the c.jab x2, c.mp combo sequence for the simple fact that his spacing after you land it is terrible. sure after you land it, you can back dash ASAP then forward jump but by that time, they are up already. putting you at risk. it puts you in a very limited setup position. yeah you can do that neutral j.fierce OS bingo shit, but that is not a good enough reason to use it.

What about against a char you can’t safejump anyway?

Make his overhead faster, give his wrench on ultra 2 more range, and give him more ways to combo into ultra overall ( besides RH ruffian FADC ultra) and he’ll be up there with Abel and Rufus… I really don’t feel that in this game engine his rocks not stoping jump ins is an issue. That’s what b+MP is for. His clp has crazy range already and his hit confirms are amazing.

Basically, this.
I haven’t seen anyone else really use LK ruffian in combos when FP CU is a better idea 99.9% of the time, hits faster, does more damage, can be confirmed off a greater variety of normals, etc. I’ve also seen LK ruffian get blocked when done late off a far c. MP.

Cody needs a lot more than a faster overhead and better ultra set-ups to even begin thinking about sitting at top tier with Rufus and them. His overhead is already awesome anyway.
Fighting games are about controlling space first and foremost. Everyone proposing changes to improve his damage output/mix-up is totally missing the point. Rufus isn’t just top tier because of his mix-up; his divekicks also make it difficult for many characters to control the space around him. Why do you think his ultra 2 is so good? Because it controls almost the entire screen and can be done on reaction to everything from a jump to a projectile.

b. MP stops jumps reactively. Cody used to be able to stop them pre-emptively from a lot farther away. There’s a big difference.

I think people are forgetting that Alpha 3 also had X-ISM with no air block, and Cody never became some kind of top tier god when fighting X-ISM players. The fact that they anti-air was offset by the fact that the higher arc made it possible to walk under them and just sweep him, and the slow start-up speed of the rocks meant that you can’t just spam them forever because the player advances forward a considerable amount in between each rock. You had to make smart use of the different versions in combination with your ruffian/pokes in order to use them effectively.

Rocks do like 50 damage in Super 4 anyway. It’s not like you’re gonna be destroying people with that shit, and again, the game has something called a focus dash.

Yeah I agree that rocks aren’t a great zoning tool but neither is Ryu’s hadoeken in this game. Cody has higher priority reactive anti air options than ryu that are normals. You have to take the balance of the entire game into consideration.

Uh.

Anti-air priority is a very tiny part of what makes a character viable. This barely matters. There are plenty of ways to get around jumps that aren’t reliant on ground normals alone. Claw’s never even had a reliable anti-air normal, and that never stopped him from being high tier in other games.