Community Tierlist - Cody help requested!

cody

#1

Hello Cody mainers,

At Community Tierlist - overview you can see a brand new dynamic tierlist which is a combined effort of all people on the SRK character forums.

The goal of this web application is to get all people who main a certain character to give their opinion on that character matchups, and then to combine all that data in one overall list.
The idea worked pretty well when performed by the Rose forum (http://shoryuken.com/f277/rose-mis-fortunes-rose-match-up-poll-263465/), most users reached a consensus and Rose got a nice analysis that ranked her around 13th to 17th place, on par with the latest opinions on her by American and Japanese top players.

If all character forums take a small effort to go vote on their character we will get:
[list]
[] a per character average of matchups
[
] a community-generated tierlist
[] a cross-matchup view on each matchup (as for example Cody vs Ryu will be ranked both in Cody view as in Ryu view)
[
] and when enough data is provided: a statistical view on contested matchups, on agreed upon matchups and more!
[/list]

Because this list is open, and inputs are sensitive I took a few measure to get better results:
[list]
[] You can only vote once per character
[
] You need to provide the forumcode of you character to validate your vote (provided here), so that you can’t simply click around and vote on anything you want
[*] The extreme votes are removed statistically (10% lowest and 10% highest are discounted)
[/list]
Cody forumcode is: cody3059201
Please copy/paste this in the forumcode box

I will gradually go to each character forum to collect votes. After your vote you can copy/paste your input to this thread for further discussion.

Hopefully we get a good result! :slight_smile:

Web application: Community Tierlist - overview
Forumcode: cody3059201


#2

nice idea, tho it’s biased and not very objective.^^


#3

bump for justice


#4

Currently only 6 criminal upper users have voted, while we need 10 votes per character to get a good average. Most forumboards have 10+ votes at this time. Are there any more active Cody users on this forum?


#5

Yeah, but I still can’t vote.


#6

User sakeido voted on cody
viper: 4.5
guile: 4.0
bison: 4.0
chun: 4.0
deejay: 5.0
guy: 6.0
seth: 4.0
ibuki: 4.0
vega: 4.0
fuerte: 5.0
dudley: 4.0
sagat: 5.0
cammy: 4.0
makoto: 6.0
dhalsim: 4.0
rufus: 4.5
gouken: 6.0
adon: 4.0
ken: 4.0
hakan: 5.0
rose: 5.0
akuma: 3.0
balrog: 5.0
honda: 4.0
zangief: 3.0
dan: 4.5
sakura: 4.5
gen: 5.0
ryu: 5.0
hawk: 3.5
fei: 4.0
abel: 3.0
blanka: 5.0
juri: 5.0


#7

hawk 3.5? O_O rly? I mean I can acknowledge most matchups and different opinions but not THAT, really O_O. [also that dude who said cody-akuma is 5.5 for cody]


#8

User pieguy voted on cody
viper: 5.0
guile: 5.0
bison: 4.5
chun: 5.0
deejay: 5.0
guy: 6.0
seth: 5.0
ibuki: 4.0
vega: 5.5
dudley: 5.0
sagat: 4.5
cammy: 4.0
makoto: 6.0
dhalsim: 4.5
rufus: 4.0
gouken: 5.5
adon: 5.5
ken: 4.5
hakan: 6.0
rose: 5.0
akuma: 5.0
balrog: 5.5
honda: 5.0
zangief: 5.0
dan: 6.0
sakura: 6.0
gen: 5.0
ryu: 5.0
hawk: 6.0
fei: 4.0
abel: 4.0
blanka: 5.5
juri: 5.0

lol 3.5-6.5 vs hawk is a fat joke. Hawk in general is a flaming POS. You literally only need RH RK, b+mp, s.rh, rocks and fake rocks to win that match-up. His hitbox is so big it?s ridiculous.
Akuma is even imo. Cody AA?s him better than a lot of the cast and ducks the rh as well. All you have to worry about is blocking that tatsu and teching right. Much better chances than characters like Rose who just roll over and die to demon flip mixup until they can spam out U2 which is baitable. Free U2 on blocked sweep is huge as well.


#9

akuma and zangief share one thing. they are okayish to fight until they get a knockdown. it can be over then. and cody is much more free then rose vs demon flip mix up. rose can atleast backdash quickly and far, cody has nothing. not even a safe ultra to spam, he’s just doomed, forced to take everything akuma want’s him to. (tho, if they do a divekick meaty setup, u2 will hit them grounded).


#10

I’m pretty sure rose does not get free backdash off of untechable far knockdowns. And while rose might have a slightly better wake-up backdash, she loses in terms of reversal, keep away and damage in that match-up.

Against zangief, only half his knockdowns are bad. Against the meaty splash which requires ex greenhand, you have to block and yes that’s stressful. But spd oki can be forward dashed out of if he meaty splashes so it’s not that big of a deal. I think people greatly overestimate zangief cause they tend to panic. It’s not an easy match-up by any means but I don’t see it as bad as everybody complains about. People also forget about ex rk to get out of cross-up situations for free.


#11

nobody gets a free backdash out of Akuma’s vortex unless they specifically anticipated a demon flip throw. If you backdash palm you either get OS swept or demon’d, if you backdash dive kick you get hit, and if you backdash sweep you get hit. As usual the only thing going for Cody in the Akuma matchup is his crazy damage and stun output and iirc Akuma can’t hit Cody with a sweep after lk tatsu so he doesn’t get as many perfect vortex setups. And as usual, Cody’s strengths are outweighed by his weaknesses… Akuma dominates him in the footsie game, he can zone Cody without breaking a sweat, his mixups are better, and his reversal options are far far better. Match is basically over after one knockdown anyway so the fight could never be 5-5 or even 4.5-5.5.

As far as your Zangief advice, its wrong. You can’t dash out of splash setups and if you do (because Gief mistimed his splash), you can get punished by option select anyway. Don’t forget Gief’s other knockdowns… sweep, normal throw, 360+k, EX SPD. Hawk-Cody is 3.5 because Hawk is a footsie monster who has splash mixups and unlike Gief he doesn’t need to burn meter to set up his mixup again. Also he has an SPD (works well vs cody frame traps) and a DP, so running any kind of mixup on him is hard. Very hard.

I think your tier list is in no way indicative of reality. Also, big LOL @ “use an EX move to get out of crossups… for FREE”


#12

no, i don’t mean backdash the wakeup, but she can backdashout afterwards easily, where as cody can not. ^^

tierlists that are done by a single player are ALWAYS a matter of biased experience. so don’t get personal for that

you can’t really frametrap grapplers good persé. but you can zone him like crazy. I think it’s one of cody’s ersier matchups, if you have the patience. hawk has no real answers to your zoning game, and without you being too recklessy I don’t see how he can outplay you often.


#13

Liquid Twilight
User liquid twilight voted on cody
viper: 5.0
guile: 3.0
bison: 5.0
chun: 5.0
deejay: 4.0
guy: 5.0
seth: 5.0
ibuki: 4.0
vega: 6.0
fuerte: 4.0
dudley: 4.0
sagat: 6.0
cammy: 4.0
makoto: 6.0
dhalsim: 4.0
rufus: 5.0
gouken: 6.0
adon: 6.0
ken: 5.0
hakan: 6.0
rose: 5.0
akuma: 3.0
balrog: 5.0
honda: 5.0
zangief: 5.0
dan: 5.5
sakura: 4.5
gen: 5.0
ryu: 5.0
hawk: 5.5
fei: 4.0
abel: 5.0
blanka: 5.0
juri: 4.0


#14

If you aren’t getting crossed up on wake-up meaty, you can ex ruffian kick out. I don’t understand why that’s so hard to understand. It’s free if you know which cross-ups are not guaranteed that you have to block which is basically only greenhand mix-up, and even then, that mix-up is disappearing in AE. Also, i don’t understand how you say t.hawk is a footsie monster when his normals are average at best against short characters. He’s got no good lows past c.mk and that’s just decent. Also, his mp and fp are slow and hit very high meaning they get crushed often by cody’s lows.

T.hawk is like a lost cause in this game, especially with his ridiculously bad s.rh which is a free ultra on whiff every time. Sounds like you have no rock/fake rock/rh rk mix-up or zoning abilities.


#15

User DnC voted on cody
viper: 5.0
guile: 4.5
bison: 5.0
chun: 4.5
deejay: 5.0
guy: 5.0
seth: 6.0
ibuki: 4.5
fuerte: 6.5
dudley: 5.5
sagat: 5.0
cammy: 4.5
makoto: 5.0
dhalsim: 5.0
rufus: 6.0
gouken: 5.0
adon: 6.0
ken: 5.0
hakan: 5.5
rose: 5.0
akuma: 4.5
balrog: 4.5
honda: 4.5
dan: 6.0
sakura: 6.0
gen: 5.0
ryu: 5.0
hawk: 7.0
fei: 5.0
abel: 4.0
blanka: 6.0
juri: 5.0


#16

Curious as to why you think this?


#17

Could you elaborate on this please ? I might be mistaken, but if you rank this MU 6.5 then I guess it means you found a reliable way to escape his pressure once he knocked you down, which would indeed be huge. I don’t really know the MU that well but that seems improbable at best.


#18

Nobody gets a free backdash but if you have a good backdash then you can FADC backdash, which is good enough to get out of SOME of his mixup.

He can.

Cody has a LOT more than just “damage and stun output” in this matchup. Outside of a well spaced c.HK there’s nothing Cody can’t counter during footsies against Akuma and even then he has Crack kick which can hop over it and punish, his footsies are very good. If Cody can limit Ryu’s options during footsies then he can do the same with Akuma. Also what do you define “footsies” as and what are good footsies? This is aimed at everybody btw, just curious to hear your responses.

Akuma’s mixups and reversals options are probably the best in the game, nothing surprising about that but he can zone Cody without breaking a sweat? COMPLETELY wrong. Cody has many ways to get around EVERY fireball Akuma throws, it’s actually quite difficult for Akuma to zone him because he has to be at perfect ranges, heights etc otherwise he’d be countered. The only characters that I truly believe can zone Cody EASIER (not without breaking a sweat like they’re fighting a scrub…) are Sagat, Guile and Dhalsim and when Cody gets in on either of them it’s terror.

Cody’s options against Akuma’s “zoning”:

  • Air fireball: c.MK, c.HK, EX Ruffian, LK Ruffian, LK super, EX and normal Zonk.
  • Red fireball: c.MK (under all version, they move at the same speed)
  • Ground fireball: EX and normal Zonk and EX Ruffian.

Not forgetting the universal FADC forward and his Ultra 2, which goes through EVERY type of fireball Akuma does, which means if he spaces them wrong he could eat an Ultra. And remember Cody has Bad Stone which, when timed well, can match Akuma in a fireball war (FOR A LIMITED TIME). Cody will eventually lose but it allows you to fight off fireballs as well as evade them. There’s nothing that Akuma does that effectively stops Cody from advancing forward in terms of projectiles. His c.HK is probably his best zoning tool because of the range and potential mixup he gains from it.

If the match is over after one knockdown then you need to learn the matchup. There’re setups that are easily recognizable and yes he has great mixup but it doesn’t mean just because you get knocked down once it’s over. Akuma has certain things he can do in certain situations, he doesn’t just have an unlimited amount of options from any given position. Learn the matchup and counter accordingly (not directed at you btw but at everyone)

There are many matchups where Cody has more than his stun output and crazy damage but yes they’re strengths in this matchup and should be a reason why the matchup isn’t 7-3. If he makes one mistake it could be over for him.

Just to enlighten you about this matchup, outside of fireballs Akuma has:

  • Really quick walk speed
  • Demon flips
  • c.HK

Akuma’s walk speed allows him to move freely across the screen, which far outmatches Cody’s mobility. His demon flips must be perfectly timed or on your wakeup otherwise he’s eating a HK Ruffian which could lead to MK Ruffian (no meter) or a FADC combo for BIG damage (especially on Akuma). When Akuma has no meter Cody can FADC through and Crack kick over his c.HK (Im not saying these are punishes etc. Just that they’re options). A popular way for Akuma to get in is with far s.HK. The second hit whiffs on Cody allowing for a damaging punish, yet another thing Akuma must look out for in this matchup.

Additionally, when Cody knocks Akuma down he can limit his escape options with OS. Using cl.LK OS EX Rocks hits Akuma if he decides to teleport on wakeup for 120 damage (quite a bit against Akuma). You can also use cl.LK/c.LP OS Crack kick and U2 when you land against his teleport. This will make them think twice about teleporting, which will make them want to block or DP you the next chance they get in the same situation.

This is ALL from tournament and casual experience against the top players here in the UK. This is not theory talk.

The matchup is definately not 7-3 at best 6-4 Akuma but I honestly think it’s 5.5-4.5 Akuma which is MY opinion btw.

Your tier list isn’t really indicative of reality either because you seem to be stating things with less experience than others and also thinking of the general stuff. Also, if you assume the player does good jump ins then no it won’t work but if they do a terrible cross up then EX Ruffian will get you out, not for free because you’re spending meter but still out.

You’re also being quite patronizing, I’m pretty sure you knew he meant “FREE” as in without much risk etc.

@ Zukuu - Cody does have a backdash you know xD of course he CAN backdash afterwards it’s just crap. Still an option though.


#19

I deny the fact that cody’s backstep is called “backdash” : D
and it was in comparison with rose hers. cody can’t use his backdash in some situation where as rose could [to be safe]. ^^
ofc cody’s can be an option… sometimes :>

i like tier discussions if they are based on factes, even tho they remain biased and heavily based on experience.

while you are right that cody has some capabilities to deal with akuma in footsie, he has not on wakeup, and this is where cody is doomed in this mu. in footsie he is still in a disadvantage. akuma CAN zone cody effectly. “instant air hados” make his way back pretty much safe without you being able to get trough it in time. and good akumas know their distance and when to do which fireballs. Against the good one’s I also rarely see any nonwakeup divekick-
also far s.hk is much more of a problem than you admit it is imo. due codys backstep he can’t focus the first and backdash the second. it’s also quick enough to ch any rocks and s.hk. the second hit also only whiffs under certain condition. while this might be a reson 6-4, akumas abillities to keep cody knocked down on wakeup and the resulting damage is more then enough reason to rate it 6.5-3.5. it is devastating and in this situation 9-1 lol. if you ask me, his wakeup escape and reversal game makes this a cleary 7-3. if he isn’t our worst matchup, I don’t see who else it is.

also, this is meant against players who have studied gouki and all his setups and options, in which even similar skilled cody’s can’t to apeshit [on wake up]. lol


#20

alternatively, you focus absorb the attack and then get swept out of your backdash, or worse. this is a seriously high risk move vs anyone, especially akuma.

ah so the match is even more 7-3 than I thought

footsies from a character perspective is a combination of great walkspeed (akuma is tied for fastest in the game) with good pokes from a variety of ranges. Akuma’s from far range is s.rh and c.rh, mid range is c.mk, closest is c.mp. He also has his focus attack’s unique movement and decent range. Another unique advantage Akuma has is the ability to cancel a normal into demon any time he wants.

Cody meanwhile is incredibly slow on his feet and he has no high quality low poke. Zonk is sometimes useful in footsies, but Akuma can always punish it. Akuma also walks backwards so quickly Cody has huge problems keeping him pinned down. c.mp does nothing vs c.mk and c.rh and what else does he have… some pretty craptastic standing pokes that lead to nothing, unlike Akuma’s s.rh which is a beefy combo starter.

Then a direct move comparison - Cody’s sweep vs Akuma’s. Akuma’s combination of footspeed, startup and reach on his sweep lets him whiff punish like crazy. Cody has the good startup on his sweep, but the reach is not as good, and compared to Akuma he might as well be fixed in place…

every character has ways around fireball zoning… Cody’s EX Ruffian is better than some but again good Akumas will not leave themselves open to it. And even if Cody eventually gets through the fireballs, Akuma’s options up close always have to be taken so seriously you don’t even get that great of a mixup afterwards. Being able to OS against a teleport is all well and good… what is Cody supposed to do about teles during the standup game?

this is worth 1.5 points in a tier list discussion? its not about how many options he has… its about how risky they are (in this matchup, they are not at all risky) and how high reward they are (very… everything he does here leads back into the vortex, typically doing a lot of damage while you are at it). Cody’s stuff, meanwhile, is much higher risk because Akuma always has a shoryu, and his rewards are for the most part lower. He might do more damage than Akuma on a combo-for-combo basis but his combos do not lead to exceptionally strong mixups like kuma’s do.

Damage and stun is nothing without ways of opening people up. Cody’s are already pretty bad and in this matchup they are worse.

again good Akumas won’t give you those opportunities. he can always cancel into demon to punish an attempted punish. if he spaces it, the s.rh will only hit with the 2nd hit and be safe (but it’ll still start combos!) and again this is not news to me and already figured into my 7-3

one OS that needs EX meter and doesn’t give a knockdown, and one OS that needs ultra and some very good execution to work. meanwhile, Akuma’s OSes don’t cost meter and lead back into knockdowns. once again, advantage Akuma

punishing players’ mistakes does not figure into tier list matchups

Cody is a garbage character, bottom three in the game. Him getting completely blown up by one of the game’s best chars shouldn’t be difficult t understand. IMO.