Community Tierlist - Makoto help requested!

Hello Makoto mainers,

At Community Tierlist - overview you can see a brand new dynamic tierlist which is a combined effort of all people on the SRK character forums.

The goal of this web application is to get all people who main a certain character to give their opinion on that character matchups, and then to combine all that data in one overall list.
The idea worked pretty well when performed by the Rose forum (, most users reached a consensus and Rose got a nice analysis that ranked her around 13th to 17th place, on par with the latest opinions on her by American and Japanese top players.

If all character forums take a small effort to go vote on their character we will get:
[] a per character average of matchups
] a community-generated tierlist
[] a cross-matchup view on each matchup (as for example Makoto vs Ryu will be ranked both in Makoto view as in Ryu view)
] and when enough data is provided: a statistical view on contested matchups, on agreed upon matchups and more!

Because this list is open, and inputs are sensitive I took a few measure to get better results:
[] You can only vote once per character
] You need to provide the forumcode of you character to validate your vote (provided here), so that you can’t simply click around and vote on anything you want
[*] The extreme votes are removed statistically (10% lowest and 10% highest are discounted)
Makoto forumcode is: makoto-1081510285 (complete thing before and after dash)
Please copy/paste this in the forumcode box

I will gradually go to each character forum to collect votes. After your vote you can copy/paste your input to this thread for further discussion.

Hopefully we get a good result! :slight_smile:

Web application: Community Tierlist - overview
Forumcode: makoto-1081510285

So if I vote the matchup vs Boxer as a 2 it will not be counted? That’s pretty stupid because I honestly feel it’s that bad.
Also, just to make sure: This is about Super, not AE, right?

vs abel: 5
vs adon: 5.5
vs akuma: 4
vs balrog: 3
vs blanka: 5
vs viper: 4
vs cammy: 3
vs chun: 5
vs cody: 5.5
vs dan: 5
vs deejay: 4.5
vs dhalsim: 6
vs dudley: 5
vs honda: 3
vs fuerte: 6
vs fei: 4
vs gen: 5
vs gouken: 6
vs guile: 4.5
vs guy: 5
vs hakan: 4.5
vs ibuki: 4
vs juri: 5.5
vs ken: 4.5
vs bison: 4
vs rose: 4
vs rufus: 4
vs ryu: 4
vs sagat: 4
vs sakura: 5
vs seth: 4
vs hawk: 4
vs vega: 4
(his pokes dominate mine when he has his claw and I just don’t know how to consistently punish his backdash)
vs zangief: 5

Edit: oops i just single handedly dropped makoto to bottom three. :frowning: i really thought I was voting positively lol

it will be, but once 10 votes are in the lowest and highest votes will be removed automatically. If more people vote it a 2, then it will be a 2

vs abel: 3.5
vs adon: 5
vs akuma: 4
vs balrog: 3
vs blanka: 5
vs viper: 4.5
vs cammy: 2.5 - i really don’t need to explain this one
vs chun: 4.5
vs cody: 4.5
vs dan: 5
vs deejay: 5.5
vs dhalsim: 5
vs dudley: 4.5
vs honda: 3
vs fuerte: 5
vs fei: 3 - regardless of meter, one focused axe kick = round over (over 400 damage + cornered knockdown)
vs gen: 5.5
vs gouken: 6
vs guile: 3
vs guy: 5
vs hakan: 4 - i play a great hakan regularly and am pretty confident of this one
vs ibuki: 5
vs juri: 5.5
vs ken: 4.5
vs bison: 3.5
vs rose: 4
vs rufus: 3
vs ryu: 4.5
vs sagat: 4
vs sakura: 5
vs seth: 5
vs hawk: 4
vs vega: 4
vs zangief: 5

sorry guys, guess i’m not that optimistic about our girl. i’m still playing her tho!

vs Abel: 3.5
vs Adon: 4.5
vs Akuma: 4
vs Balrog: 3
vs Blanka: 4
vs C. Viper: 5
vs Cammy: 3
vs Chun-Li: 4
vs Cody: 5
vs Dan: 5
vs Dee Jay: 5
vs Dhalsim: 5.5 (Only because of her magnificent counter-pokes, U2, and EX Tsurugi making jumping in viable at times)
vs Dudley: 4.5
vs E. Honda: 3
vs El Fuerte: 5
vs Fei Long: 3.5
vs Gen: 5
vs Gouken: 5.5 (If only because his wake-up is such trash against Makoto’s Oroshi)
vs Guile: 3 (Bullshit match-up)
vs Guy: 4.5
vs Hakan: 4.5
vs Ibuki: 5 (Her vortex is not effective against Makoto)
vs Juri: 5
vs Ken: 4
vs M. Bison: 3.5 (Would be worse, but s.HK is a fantastic tool for stopping his scissor pressure)
vs Rose: 4
vs Rufus: 3
vs Ryu: 4
vs Sagat: 4
vs Sakura: 4.5
vs Seth: 5
vs T. Hawk: 4
vs Vega: 4
vs Zangief: 4

viper: 4.5
guile: 3.0
bison: 3.5
chun: 3.5
deejay: 4.5
guy: 5.0
seth: 4.0
ibuki: 4.5
vega: 4.5
fuerte: 5.0
dudley: 4.5
sagat: 3.5
cammy: 4.0 I don’t hate this matchup nearly as much as most of you guys seem to.
dhalsim: 5.5
rufus: 3.5
gouken: 5.0
adon: 5.0
ken: 4.5
rose: 4.5
akuma: 4.0
balrog: 2.5 Only gave it a 2.5 instead of a 2 because most of you seem to think it’s not a 2 and I want my vote on this to be less likely to go to waste.
honda: 3.5
zangief: 4.0
dan: 4.5 I think he has a slight advantage over Makoto. But a very slight one.
sakura: 4.0
gen: 4.0 Most people don’t know this matchup, but my best friend mains Gen and I’m pretty sure he beats Makoto in Super. His pokes are very good, his st. MP rivals Makoto’s when up close and he is just a much better character than most people think in general.
ryu: 4.0
hawk: 4.0
fei: 4.0
cody: 5.0
abel: 4.5
blanka: 3.5
juri: 5.0

Why is this not in alphabetical order btw? I’m way too lazy to do this myself.

I really don’t think the Guile match is that bad anymore. Three months a I would have said 2-8 but lately I’ve been abusing Corpse Hop -> MK tsurugi. He loses his charge, and the tsurugi evades flash kick. Do that once, and the guile player freaks out :slight_smile:

Edit: assuming you can get the knock down :wink:

Abel: 4
Adon: 5
Akuma: 4.5
Balrog: 3.5
Blanka: 4.5
Bison: 3.5 (I hate this match)
Cammy: 3 (So free for Cammy)
Chun: 4
Cody: 5
C. Viper: 5
Dan: 5.5
Dee Jay: 5
Dhalsim: 5
Dudely: 5
E. Honda: 3
ELF: 6
Fei Long: 4
Gen: 5.5
Gouken: 5.5
Guile: 3 (Terrible match for Mak)
Guy: 4.5
Hakan: 5
Ibuki: 5
Juri: 5.5
Ken: 4
Rose: 4.5
Rufus: 4
Ryu: 4
Sagat: 4.5
Sakura: 5
Seth: 5
T. Hawk: 4
Vega: 4
Zangief: 4

This is just how I feel, Makoto just doesn’t win.

viper: 5.0 – Can go either way. Fukiage and jump back fierce
guile: 4.5 – Not a great matchup but guile has wakeup issues
bison: 4.0 – Terrible, but not unwinnable, Jump back fierce and ground crossups prevent it from being lower than 4
chun: 4.0 – Shitty! She just zones!
deejay: 6.5 – It’s a hassle getting in, but DeeJay gets raped so hard by Makoto’s options on wakeup it’s not even funny
guy: 5.5 – Fukiage! Jump back fierce isnt as useful here.
ibuki: 5.5 – U2, low stun. Vortex sucks
seth: 6.5 – This is a very mecurial match, but Seth’s walking a thin line the entire time.
vega: 7.0 – Poor Vega. Fukiage shuts down wall dive, U2 is punish for walldive anywhere and backflip and gets frametrapped all day
fuerte: 6.5 – Makoto’s dash, command grab, and jump back fierce make fuerte’s wakeup against you as much of a gamble for you and it is him. His no wakeup hurts him
dudley: 5.0 – Eh. You can punish dropped combos well, but he can slaughter you as well.
sagat: 5.0 – I think Sagat puts himself at more risk with his zoning game than most do, considering a far mid screen whiffed poke equals getting rushed by makoto
cammy: 4.5 – Divekicks fucking suck! Makoto’s options are limited, but she can punish Cammy well.
dhalsim: 7.0 – Dhalsim has an unlucky mix of low health, no reversal, low stun, susceptibility to U2, beefy char specific combos, and no answer to frame traps. Trade with him all day
rufus: 4.5 – Divekicks suck! Might actually be lower
gouken: 6.5 – Gouken has enormous wakeup problems with Makoto and Makoto has answers to demon flip. Any anti air hadoukens run the risk of getting dashed in on
adon: 6.0 – I like this match! Midgame can be difficult, but you can shut him down decently
ken: 5.0 – Mid level. Not much to say here.
rose: 4.0 – I dislike this match! Drill and fireball and jump fierce. Bullshit.
hakan: 6.0 – lol lows
akuma: 5.0 – Teleport punish, low hp, low stun, focusing shk leads to karakusa… iffy. Can go horribly.
balrog: 4.0 – Crappy. Lucky headbutts are your bane. He has wakeup problem though.
honda: 5.0
zangief: 5.5 – Answers to Lariat, SPD… High risk for all parties involved
dan: 6.5
sakura: 5.0
gen: 6.0
ryu: 5.0
hawk: 4.5
cody: 6.0
fei: 4.5
abel: 4.5
blanka: 5.0
juri: 5.0

More later…

OMG ! i wanna know precisely why !
How do you shut him down ?

That list sounds accurate if you’re playing AE.

Stmp and mk wreaks havoc on his specials that arent dp, jump back fierce stuffs half of everything he does, including DP if timed/positioned right. You can’t safe jump him which is lame. You can trade fukiage with quite a few things. F+mp is decent bullshit to frustrate and make him throw out DPs.

Also, I’m not sure if you’ve noticed this but a huge chunk of Makoto’s AE videos people think are so good and show how much better she… LOL. The biggest buff in 99.9% of those videos is that someone is actually playing Makoto at all. Aside from people doing fukiage on everyone, nobody ive seen has fully utilizing her buffs yet. To any potential haters/trolls, that’s a good thing.

Her biggest buff is that people like Cammy, Bison, E. Honda, and Guile were all nerfed pretty badly.

i reallllly don’t agree with this. being able to stuff / punish walldive doesn’t matter because nobody in their right mind would try for naked one anyways. it’s like saying that you can punish ryu’s sweep … well yeah, but who cares because lots of characters can and i’m never going to throw it out there naked.

vega punishes everything you do (sweep, oroshi, all strengths of hayate) with jab *n, -> ex barcelona into a hard knockdown into a safejump mixup (you can ex kara this though! neat.). imo the only thing keeping this match out of retarded territory is that he doesn’t have a great answer for in-close pressure and if you catch him with tsrugi when he tries for a kara-throw even once it can really shut down his grounded mixup. aside from that he can just lame you out forever until you score a lucky knockdown and gamble on his wakeup.

makoto’s j.fp and tsrugi make for sick jumpins but between, nj.hp, airthrow, stand roundhouse and scarlet terror a competent vega CAN AA you on reaction.

You can’t really jump in on Vega for free anyway, but neither are you. From anti air you reduce his options to trying to grab you, jumping, cosmic heel, or backflip. He has to guess quick. Also, Vega’s claw presents a problem, but you can tag his hands with smp smk or crmp into hayate or sweep. There’s also IAT but that might be a little cocky. Karaexoroshi is also an option to deal with Vega’s pokes. The goal is really to at least trade. If you get a clean hit, you’re in and he’s negative, and I dont think Vega has the best tools to deal with Makoto, especially given his health and stun pool.

Honda and Akuma even? Gief 5.5? Vega and Sim 7???

I have to say, you have given enough proof to assume that you either

a) Play vs really shitty people

b) Are the best makoto on earth hands down

c) Are fucking insane

Lol I’m going to vote for options A and C. Jkjk

But seriously, it’s pretty obvious you havnt played many good Hakans, Guys, Vegas, Dans, Akumas, Gens…
Anything above a 5 means that Makoto has an advantage which she rarely has the tools. I even think in AE, Makoto’s going to just become a solid 5-5 character with a few above that.

Now if you really know these matches as well as it sounds, share the wealth and post some tutorials or high level match videos. I’m always up for learning.

Ive only been traveling and playing anyone on a high level since September. I’m not the best, nor do I claim to be(I’m pretty green still), but I dont see things as hopeless in the current version of the game.

Curious, where do you live in Illinois?

You on XBL?