Comparing Dee Jay to top level tournament play?

dee-jay
#1

Can he truly hold his own? Forgive me if this discussion has been brought up before but I’m really curious.

During the Super days, I messed around with Dee Jay every now and then. I thought he was definitely fun to play but I was more concerned with my main, Cammy, so I couldn’t go in depth with him like I may have wanted to. Now my main is Yang since Cammy didn’t transition well, but I just recently picked up Dee Jay again. Yang is getting nerfed to destruction in AE2012 so I felt it was time to change. Anyways, what I’m not clear on is why Dee Jay is not represented more in tournament play, especially since AE released and he got a considerable improvement. You rarely ever see him make decent appearances. I’m learning more and more about him and he just seems like an overall solid character. I know of a few great Dee Jay players like Hatrify and Akimo, but aside from that, I don’t think he’s getting the exposure he deserves. He’s too under appreciated IMO. He’s getting nothing but buffs in AE2012, so it seems like he keeps getting better. I feel as though his player base is too small for no reason.

I’m still a Dee Jay beginner so I don’t exactly know his true weaknesses or what he lacks so please help me to understand. So what do you think: Is he just underrated or is there an intricate part of his game that he’s missing to compete with the big dogs?

Oh and add me on XBL for some Dee Jay matches. I need the practice and experience. =) GT: DeRezz9

#2

Welcome to the Dee Jay boards. Some things to watch out for:

Jcool: He will tell you that Super Dee Jay was awesome because of his lk sobat being airborne (and he has a point), then he will tell you to go learn dash U2.
Da Knut: He will tell you to cut your losses, since Dee Jay ain’t going nowhere and is around 30th in the tier lists. But he loves Dee Jay too much to leave. :smiley:
Hatrify: Will post ridiculously high level vids of himself raping some poor sap on XBL then immediately say he needs to improve.

The above are all great players, so you’d do well to listen to what they say.

For my part, I think Dee Jay is a solid mid-level character with some fatal weaknesses that prevent him from rising to a truly world-class level. He’s got an extremely risky wakeup game since upkicks whiff on crouchers, his cr. jabs and cr. shorts are too slow, and he has some footsie problems. His bad matchups are unfortunate in terms of what’s common in the tourney metagame, and he has the unfortunate distinction of having a kinked learning curve (i.e. he’s deceptively easy to pick up until you hit a relative wall when you need to learn dash U2, or hit confirming cr. jab cr.mp xx sobat off of knee shots).

The discussion on this board of his buffs in 2012 has largely concluded that the buffs aren’t going to help his matchups very much, and that they’re buffing the wrong parts of Dee Jay’s playstyle , while everyone else’s buffs have been more to the point. I’m not sure I agree with this, and I’m excited about a few things that we’re getting, but overall the mood is a bit pessimistic.

It’s also probably something to do with Dee Jay’s personality. Lots of players want to play “cool” or “badass” characters, or else pretty girls. Then there are the comedy characters like Dan and Hakan. Dee Jay is kind of in the middle. To me, he feels like the dad I never had. To a lot of people, he must resemble how buju banton imagines himself in a barfight.

#3

Thanks for the info. I’m starting to pick up on MGU dash U2. I know the proper commands but I need to practice to land it more consistently. I’ll get hype when I actually land it in a match lol. But to be honest, I’m actually doing decent so far with Dee Jay. I’m loving his ambiguity with j.mk and his Knee Shot. Definitely an effective mix up. One of his main points I’m having mixed feelings towards is his LK Sobat being -6 on block according to the wiki, but I’m not sure how accurate that may be. I’m guessing it’s purpose is to not be a pressuring tool? Got plenty of things to learn.

#4

For some reason I think I played you a couple of times on Xboxlive.

Dee Jay’s middle ground…He can kinda zone and kinda rushdown…People like to pick characters that excel at one rather than be only ok at either.

Personally, I just cant resist dat smile. :stuck_out_tongue:

#5

lk sobat has been a contentious move. I feel that it’s most useful as a footsies and spacing tool, and I definitely use it for pressure, although this is character specific.

Some general guidelines:
-NEVER use it on Guile, he can punish it on block with flash kick for free. Pretty much the only time I can think it’s appropriate to use on Guile is when you’ve blocked the first hit of his sweep but you don’t have super or ultra.

-Always try to space it so that it hits with the tip or as close to the tip as you can consistently manage. If you do this, then lk sobat is actually fairly safe on block, as it leaves the opponent a fair distance away. Obviously watch out for chun and ryu’s supers, etc.

-Don’t get predictable. This sounds like an obvious one, but it’s especially important with lk sobat since it’s not the quickest move out there on startup. If you get too predictable you will get beat out by DPs or faster opponents (Akuma, Bison, etc.) will just walk back and make you whiff, then punish (this is especially a risk if you’ve spaced correctly.)

-Remember that it has low invincibility, so it will be especially useful against characters that like to set up a lot with low attacks. Notable examples are Ryu, Ken and Akuma’s low forwards into fireballs, Juri’s low forward into pinwheel, Sagat’s low forward into tiger shot, and the list goes on. DJ loves being at lk sobat max range, and the fact that at this range a lot of characters’ main tools for footsies are low attacks that lk sobat goes over is one of DJ’s biggest assets. Use it to gain the advantage in the footsies game.

#6

lk sobat hops over Ryu, Ken, and Akumas low foward and misses half the time for me. :stuck_out_tongue:
Getting happy with that move gets me neutral jumped on, and some good characters can jab punish you on block. It’s good. Not spammable good.

#7

its -5 in AE. get your frame data from here and stop getting it from where ever else you’re getting it from here:http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Deejay

All those crouching normals that lower your hitboxes really annoy me. if i make a read i should get something for it

never mind i am getting something for it. . .punished lol

#8

You know, people used to think that Sakura could never place in tournaments either. She has questionable wakeup options, had decent to meh footsies and certain matchups are especially bad. And now we have AE Sak placing top 3 in a Japanese tournament? (Best and Worst example, I know).

It’s all a question of your dedication to your craft. How much do you want to dedicate yourself to DeeJay? You’re gonna struggle against stronger zoning characters, your damage output isn’t as good as other characters, and DeeJay is a very straightforward sort of character. I’ve played him in Super and when the changes came for AE I was excited to continue playing him. and now the 2012 changes come and I’m even more excited to continue playing Dee Jay. I may be in the minority, but I do think DeeJay is capable of placing in tournaments and I think that if you are a better player and you truly become a student of the game, you will do well.

#9

Sorry you can’t compare DJ with Sakura. She was predicted A tier to begin with. Plus her bad matchups got nerfed. This kid can turn a crouch tech short to a 350 damage combo, 400 plus meterless combo and her cr.hp is the best AA in the game. She has great footsies. Have you fought a great Sakura that can cr.mk hit confirm. That leg stretches far as hell. DJ has nothing like that. DJ doesn’t have the tools for this nooby engine. I mean yeah Dj can place high in a 50-70 player tourney. I’ve done it myself multiple of times but in a major is completely different. You have to be on your Ps and Qs and A-Zs. He has to many bad matchups against popular characters. There is nothing that he is really great at and he can’t make bid damage off of a random move or reversal.

#10

Yeah, I sit my ass up here and play Internet matches against some people/ watch internet vids n shit…I could sit here and be like “Hell yeah Dee jay can Def do it!”…But I’ve learned it’s a totally different ball game…just from fighting pros online. Pros know the weaknesses DeeJay has on top of learning your habits…The way DeeJay is now…I’m no pro…but I think he is subject to easy pressure…And pressure is everything. I also think for Dj to be played at his best he must attempt vortexes every chance he gets…And zoning seems to be lol to alot of the top
Chars.

#11

I feel like he has potential until a certain point. If you learn your matchups you should have an edge in your games. DJ is an underplayed character and use that to your advantage.

Unfortunately I could not make a splash at SBO Quals or at EVO ( Lost to Latif and a training partner -___- ) hopefully I can do well at WNF since it’s returning and even closer to my area. We shall see.

#12

Okay maybe I can clarify a little better what I meant. In Vanilla and Super, Sakura was considered Low Tier (rightfully so seing as what she had to deal with tier wise). However, she still had all these tools and pretty much the same combos. I think people just didn’t know her potential as a character. And now people are seeing what she can do and she’s moved up in the tier list.

Now can this happen with DeeJay? I don’t think so as far as him moving up in Tiers. Like you said, he doesn’t have the same tools as other characters that are his bad matchups can do. But at the same time I think that after using the character and experiencing those bad matchups against good players that Dee Jay can hang and can win. Tiers say a lot about which characters win tournaments, but I’m a proponent of player skill and grinding it out with my character. Ps and Qs and A-Zs.

#13

People knew her potential, but in Vanilla she simply wasn’t good enough compared to the top tiers. Sakura is mostly good in AE because she does a fuckton of damage…well, almost everyone did that kind of damage in Vanilla. Sagat, rufus, akuma, gief and even ryu did obscene amounts of damage and had so much more bs going on for them that it was impossible for a character like Sakura to stand out of the crowd.
Now, in AE, with all the half assed/low damage/incomplete/mediocre characters we have, she’s starting to look good. But that’s not because of some new technology, people knew about her tatsu loops and frame traps even in vanilla, it’s because other characters have progressively become bad and the new characters have been ass from the beginning (except the twins).

Something similar happened with Fei Long.

#14

dj really doesnt do enough damage to be used in high level tournament play and his ultras are very hard to connect. although his sobat kick damage is getting buffed…At least with sakura she does good damage combos which she has always been capable of.
his zoning isnt that great when compared to guile and sagat so really at best he is just middle of the road and is fun to play with online…

#15

That’s pretty much how I see it. If you take out all of the cream (Vanilla Sagat, Ryu, Rufus, Gief, Super Guile) and add water in, even ol’ 2% milk Sakura will float to the top.

#16

In the end, the main problem with DeeJay is that he’s simply mediocre at everything he does (except smiling)

#17

Deejay is amazing if you can keep people out, get of out of mixups then stay out of the mixups.

#18

Yeah, besides links etc being on point…when I see good Deejay’s playing…it seems the way to beat alot of chars(especially the bad matchups) is to keep them on their back, guessing what’s coming next. Zoning seems to take the backseat alot of times.

#19

i zone first, then proceed to go through the rest of my options.

i need to make a deejay flowchart for beginners to follow, but there are about 2 or 3 effective ways to play deejay all including a mixture of mixture of zoning, mixup, and footsies

i feel like zoning is a last resort to most. granted it is not as good as others its still a viable strategy. you can’t win with zoning alone.

.

#20

This is my 2 cents on the matter. DeeJay is fun but has some major problems. He is kind of a keep away character with horrible AA. Someone who knows the DJ matchup can exploit this. Rufus can time his dive kicks to stuff slide, trade with Ex up kicks. Ken can jump all day mixing up RH and Tatsu. Most of the time your best bet is to meet people in the air with DJ’s god like FP but good players will catch on to your habits quickly. Also he has almost no comeback potential because his damage output without meter is crap and he has horrible frame traps. I play him because he fits my personal play style but he is definitely an underdog.