Comparing SFV to other fighting games of this generation


#1

How is SFV if we compare what it offers with other fighting games of this generation?

First we cannot deny its launch content is rather poor compared to other games, in terms of characters, game modes and extra options.

Even in the graphic department while the visuals are good, Capcom doesn’t seem willing to run the extra mile to deliver something great.

Remember the cool cooperative Rival Schools-styled “Cross Arts” we saw in the first footage of Street Fighter x Tekken? They just then said “ah, fuck it” and just used a simple intro animation and then the regular super. Both characters are not even together in screen for one second.

And the stage transitions and special elements (like the soup bowl) they made us believe Street Fighter V would feature? Only in the China stage; then they said “fuck it” and not used them anymore.

I just don’t get it. Games like Tekken, Mortal Kombat, **Killer Instinct **and **Dead or Alive **have impressive stages, team-up techniques, cool stage transition and stage interaction, why Street Fighter V don’t have them?

It’s clear the Capcom/DIMPS team puts most of its effort in creating a well-tuned fighting system and well-balanced characters, but why can’t they offer as much content as other companies, when it comes to the actual material they’re selling full priced.

The only answer it comes to my mind is that they’re cheap and lazy. They’re relying too much in the franchise’s name and fame and then they slack saying “whatever, people’s still buying it anyway”. If it wasn’t for the cinematic story mode that is promised, this could be probably up there with KOF XII for the game with the poorest amount of content in the beginning. Is it right to rely only in the name for selling and not adding considerable content at that price?

Take Mortal Kombat for example. It’s clear **MK9 **had to be a “deluxe” game to makeup for the previous mistakes of the franchise and recover the good name, but with **MKX **they didn’t slacker, it contains a huge amount of material, options and eye candy (Brutalities, interactive stages, for example).
Even Killer Instinct, that is said to be a “budget game” has very cool special effects in the stage and its graphics are no worse than Street Fighter V.
DOA is not exactly the best-selling franchise in the world but they always bring things like stage eye candy and sometimes even complex team-up techniques (that goes for TTT too).

One could argue SFV’s launch title was expensive but we’re eventually getting a lot of material for free… well, the fight money thing to begin with, could be tricky, in the other hand it’s way too expensive for a launch title. It looks like instead of selling you the game and then its update to make you pay twice, Capcom is just asking you to pay for the two games at the same time, it’s more or less the same (and also you would probably have to pay for more DLC eventually), only the launch content is somewhat miserable this time…

Do you think SFV is at the same level of its competitors?


#2

Yes, simply, and most importantly, it plays terrifically well. All the other gubbins about stage transitions, better graphics or anything else will not take away from that.

I might be biased but I simply find it difficult to play any FG that is not street fighter and is practically the only game my PlayStation is likely to see in all the years I will have it.


#3

Yes, the actual gameplay is probably the best out there, like Capcom usually does. Does that justify the $60 dollars launch price? Many people are not willing to pay that much, but Capcom know fans are fans…


#4

Thing is that is the cost a retail game, all the extra icing on top is coming. Would you rather Capcom charge $40 and then charge for updates, I know none of my friends would pay for any of the updates.

Right now I can go on line and have fun, that’s what I paid my money for, for PS4, arcade stick and game.


#5

But anyone else think Guile, Balrog, Alex, Ibuki, Urien and Juri should have been part of the launch roster?

Comparing the amount of characters other games offer at launch, it seems many people of the mainstream audience are disappointed of SFV in that department.


#6

no i dont think they should have been included at launch, we wouldnt be playing the game right now if this was the case. Love that people whine about value for money… why buy the game you moron! Just get a refund and accept your a scrub.


#7

SFV is just pug fugly compared to Xrd.


#8

I think all of those 5 characters by design are hard to balance. Balrog maybe not. But the rest are definitely tricky when it comes to balance. Balancing issues when it comes to Guile are well known and documented. And while I’m nearly a 20 year Guile main, I know having him at launch would have him being too weak or too strong. We saw how balancing Guile in SFIV was always tough.

Urien is also interesting. Because honestly, we only have a snapshot of Urien as a archtype. And in that game he greatly benefited from system specifics. So he hasn’t really been balanced in a large sample of games. For example the only other game without a Street Fighter III system he was in was CFJ. And he was actually very good in this game. I feel he would do well in this system, but having him day one would have been too much. I feel that he will get a V-Skill similar to Rashid’s though.

Ibuki was always overpowered in SF3. In 3s she got a nerf, and she wasn’t very good. In SFIV she worked in the system ok, but a lot of glaring weaknesses. IMO she always felt a bit incomplete in SFIV, but maybe that’s just me. But we do know if you give her too much she automatically becomes God Tier. So I can see them taking time with her to get her right. At least not make her too weak.

Juri is a zoner in a game that discourages zoning. So they need to give her something to compensate. But she also seems like if you don’t balance her correctly she will be too good. I will say SFIV balancing made her not too overpowered. But you can tell by her design, that she could easily become overpowred.

Alex.   Very hard to balance.  Which is why he has probably been in so few games.  I'm imagining the balance team at least want to give him tools.    I would prefer he stayed a hybrid, but I guess we have Birdie in the game to fill that roll.

#9

Saying it plays well or that the gameplay is good is entirely subjective and not something that I think should be considered a ‘win’ for SFV or Capcom in general, at least, not without elaboration.

I personally hate how it plays in contrast with other games, it feels slow, there is a very few ways to play the game and 99% of matches I have seen or played are completely interchangeable and boring;

Reasons for me thinking this;

-They removed a lot of things from SF4, things I would often complain about myself, certain OS’s like cr.tech or invincible back dashes and didn’t replace them with something else. The player has lost options. There is often one and only one correct way to respond to situations, spoiler it’s usually to block. They also lowered the execution bar, or to be more precise, they went within a hairs breadth of removing it. Now everyone can combo like Sako, which again adds to the anti-hype and makes almost every match seem the same.

-When there are so few linkable attacks and all combos are easy to do there is really only two combos for every character, adding to the samey monotony of playing or watching this game. Combo 1 is from lp, combo 2 is from medium or heavy openers. That’s it, and that’s what you will be seeing in 99% of the matches 99% of the time.

I really can’t see this game ever being as deep or successful as SF4 or even MK. It took me a long time to learn how to do the leg loops with chun, or how to consistently blow up cr.tech spamming aholes, and now they have made it so everyone can do these things with ease. Having trouble punishing/discouraging dp mashers, well now it’s essentially a one button punish.

Come to think of it, the game is reminiscent of SFxT… and the release is equally as disastrous. It’s like a bad dream. I’m going to keep my ear to the ground for changes in this game, but I sincerely doubt anything will develop that will renew my interest. Maybe, and this will never happen, but if they increased the game speed I think this game would be more to my liking.

If you read this far, don’t be butthurt that I don’t like the game. I am happy that other people are having fun with it, it’s just not for me.


#10

Why is this a complaint? People pretty much complained about OS cr. tech and backdashes for 7 years. And for good reason. Maybe they haven’t been replaced by anything because they don’t need to be replaced. Perhaps they feel your opponent should be rewarded for putting you in a situation where you have to block. Contrary to popular belief, blocking is not a bad thing. You’re forced to take your turn now because you failed a neutral. Why should the game give you another out? The only out you should get is guessing correctly. Don’t get mad at a game that punishes you for bad decisions.

Combos are not everything in a game. And I have found SFV incredibly hype. It is way more fun to watch than SFIV. At points SFIV could be a total snooze fest. My only issue is that people aren’t playing footsies, at least not yet. But I love the emphasis on the ground game, and not an emphasis on just getting and getting a combo. Every game kind of comes down to a basic BNB, sorry to tell you. 95% of the time, players will often go for the same combo no matter what game. Occasionally someone will style on the next guy by doing a training mode combo, but that’s rarely what makes a match hype. And I’m sure some hype combos will come out of SFV, but the key is they’ll probably be more situational.

And? You’re acting like everyone did 10 combos for their character in matches in every other game. Let’s look at Chun-Li in 3s. 99% of the time, there only combo she did was cr.mk xx super. Ken just did target combo, super. Cr.mk xx super. I could go on. Combo diversity has always been pretty limited in SF games. And even if the longer combos were there, they have never been incredibly practical in real matches.

And also the fact that there are less links in a way make the combo system harder. Now you had to confirm off of medium attacks to get anything started. So it rewards your ability to read your opponent, and because of that the combos are more based around your reactions as well. The main issue with the game now is that people will often drop combo opportunities because they weren’t ready if the combo hit.

I actually thought jabbing and linking into big is a big part of what made SFIV so bland. People seemed to be fishing with jabs and shorts (and focus attacks) instead of actually learning how to shimmy and bait their opponents.

Sorry, just because you had trouble with these things, doesn’t mean it was hard. Chun lightning leg loop does require execution, but it really isn’t that hard to do for anyone who played fighting games for years. I mean really good players can figure this shit out day one. Just sounds like you were a newbie in SFIV, and blowing up crouch techs or punishing was new to you. And now you’re upset because you can’t relive the learning curve. Well guess what I started playing SF2 in arcades. And it took me 6 months to learn how consistently throw fireballs and DP. There has never been anything in a fighting game that has taken me 6 months to learn since then. Not even really hard combos. So when SFA came out and they made throwing a DP even easier, I couldn’t blame the game because I was now a more experienced player at that point.

Actually I’m an advocate of SFxT. It was a very good game that died too fast, and never got a fair shake from the community. In either case, I was at the Final Round where SFxT was debuted. It was anti-hype. People were hyped about seeing the game, but once they started playing, people started walking out, or just went back to their business. My point? If the game was anti-hype you would know it. SFxT was anti-hype on arrival. You do not see the same treatment for SFV. It is because people understand the two players displaying fundamentals is way more important than acombofest.


#11

I’m with Branh0913

Combo Execution - I think that 1 frame links definitely made for combos that impressed you because they were difficult to execute… But is that really what SHOULD be impressive in a fighting game.

What I think should be impressive is what you did to position yourself to open up that combo, being able to set up traps, hit confirm, 50/50 ect. For all the leniency that 3 frame input brings us, it is no less tight where it counts, ie meaty wake ups, frame traps, throw techs, and hit confirms. Not only is it just as tight in these situations, but without being able to combo from a jab to a strong combo you can’t just dash in, jab, and come out with 60% health combo. You have to set something up to earn that above what sf4 required.

So while the execution difficulty of combos are down, this is not the same as the skill required to play the game being lowered.

The input lag is especially favorable to those of us who play predominantly online. With just the threat of latency dropping a combo, I never did anything serious in SF4 games. I would play basic bnb by the books. With the 3 frame input I feel like I can do any combo I can conceive online. There will still be many bnb combos thrown out, and like Branh said that is true for any game. MVC combos aren’t some freestyle exhibition mode, they are often loops of the same bnb combos. Killer Instinct and Mortal Kombat are no different, and in a way … the way those games do it seems more bland to me as they are often just combo loops that repeat over and over in the same execution… At least in SF5 you do your business and then you’re at the next setup.

I’m excited for KI on PC. I don’t own an xbone, so I couldn’t get that when it came out, but I like how the game play looks, I like the combo breakers ect, but it’s not likely to end SF5 for me.


I see a lot of reference to “eye candy” and this is something that really grinds my gears… I’ve played games through many generations, from the apple 2e and commodore 64, through the classic atari, nintendo, megasystem, arcades, all the way through current gen on ps4 and pc… One thing that I have always felt was extremely overrated was “eye candy.” It’s my opinion, I enjoy the challenge of the game. I dislike MK series because it is very dependent on “eye candy” gore scenes, it’s a big reason why people buy the game. DOA relied on frap material to bring up their sales. I would almost prefer SF5 never presented such forms of eye candy.

I was disappointed when I saw the Mika nerf, where they don’t pan down to her butt slap… But as much as I feel that move was in spirit of Mika, it doesn’t change how fun she is to play. If I finished a match and she was able to tear Ryu in 1000 pieces, it wouldn’t make it any more fun to play. It’s definitely a demographic difference. You may love the “eye candy” and feel it is integral that a game give you visual gimmicks to reward your purchase… When I want porn I go to a porn site, when I want a fighting game I boot up SF5.


#12

Pretty much this.


#13

Lol at MK/KI


#14

This is what it is going to come down to, and while I love to play footsies, watching it is something that isn’t going to appeal to many in my opinion. Especially when it just leads into more footsies. You think people should have liked SFxT or given it more time, and that they didn’t speaks to you lack of authority when gauging what the community will or will not like.

I used to play SF on the snes but I was like 5 years old with my friends lol, and for all intents and purposes I am a SF4 ‘newbie’. But this gives my opinion on how people will respond slightly more validity, I am average Joe and exactly the type of person this game needs to market towards in order to be commercially successful. I don’t attend tournaments, I don’t setup or go to local meetups in my area. But I play online a lot, I spend money. I watch lots of youtube videos in order to get combo ideas or setups/escapes from setups. And my demographic is much larger than the niche… I am going to say elitist veterans, but that’s for lack of a better description and in no way meant as an ad hominem attack on your person.

SF3 is praised as the best FG by many of the best and loyal fighting game enthusiasts, and from a theoretical perspective I can understand and appreciate why, yet it heralded in the end of FG for a long time with it’s commercial failure to cater towards people like me. I complained about all the things they removed in SF5, now I reserve the right to complain that the game has removed all the things I complained about. I want to be able to cheese my opponent, I don’t want to fight fair. I want to vortex, I want long impractical combos with a high execution requirement and a large selection of links, I want to see the best players do these things and try to beat the odds.

I personally think this game (SF5) is already done for, but, I will gladly eat my own words if it does well from here on out and grows in popularity.


#15

uh no a bunch of older sf players hate 3s rofl. if you want a game that has the oki you want i mean u could always go back to sf4. its not like people stopped playing it outright.


#16

As far as I was aware SF3 is considered one of the better titles by ‘older players’. And I already have went back to 4, might give 5 a little looksee when the new content drops out of curiosity though. But I wonder how many ‘newbies’ like myself have been turned off, add to that it will not attract much new attention with it’s horrible release and the player base seems as though it is going to very very small. Which again, will turn off more people and create a negative feedback loop… this game is teetering on the very edge, I betting it’s going to fall into obscurity.


#17

That’s a bad bet to make a few weeks after a game has come out.


#18

Falling into obscurity, the game has more entrants at evo than any game ever has before…and evo is still months away. The game will be fine. =P


#19

Coming from 10 years of 3rd strike experience I have to say this game doesn’t even hold a candle to the older fg’s.

Most of the time it feels even more defensive than SF4. It feels anoying playing it knowing that a fast paced rushdown style of gameplay was promised.

The set ups, cross ups, mind-games and oki are gimped compared to 3s,cvs2 and even sf4. Removing all those options and replacing them with nothing results in a slower-paced and safer type of game.

But hey why the hell am I surprised their main goal was to bridge the gap between scrubs that would be dismantled and dominated in older games playing the way they do in sf5 and players that actually take time and give effort in learning the game.

And I have to say sf5 fails in a lot of ways but it bridges the gap and lowers the difficulty really well. Oh well at least the online is good.


#20

I will like SFV get dat Demon Souls/Dark Souls reputation