Competitive DDR/ITG/Stepmania?


#1

So In the Groove is a Game similar to DDR where you use your feet to step on panels in time or almost in time with the selected song. The problem I find with having competitive ddr tournaments or music games in general, is that there are no gameplay elements that allows a player to surpass his opponent in skill. Once you own a 1:30 long song, it is very likely that many others did the same already. If both players FC the song, who wins?

Then I saw this:
[media=youtube]gHB2b6pUsbo[/media]

Apparently, In the Groove allows you to import any customs song from Stepmania (a free PC DDR clone). Correct me if i’m wrong, but aren’t most difficult Stepmania songs geared towards keyboard players? So why the hell am I watching some guy tap the shit out of his feet to play about every note in a Dimrain47 song? Remember that this isn’t easy mode Guitar Hero/Rock band where you can hit a note without being scored on 5 levels of precision.

So if the numbers in your score can be broken down into smaller ones (aka 99.23 in this vid) for a 5 MINUTE SONG, why can’t we put 2 dudes on the same machine, have them play for a chance to win money in front of a large crowd, and stream it online in front of thousands more? I just find it very hard to see two people hitting every note perfectly in this game like you see in most online Guitar Hero matches.


#2

Umm, because watching people play DDR/ITG/Stepmania is FUCKING BORING?


#3

ITG: dancing game that lets you use your own music
MUGEN: fighting game that lets you use your own characters

i will let you figure out the similarities from there


#4

So do you believe there can be any gameplay mechanics that can make a music game more exciting to watch?

Were they allowed to use stock ITG songs or custom ones? I’m assuming that the stock ones aren’t as intense as 900 bpm anime remixes or some shit.


#5

No. There honestly isn’t.

I’ve been a Bemani player (mostly IIDX) for around a decade and while there’s plenty of room for impressive videos in terms of amazing scores, they’re not “exciting” to watch in the same vein of other competitive games. If the game is played flawlessly, you see…all of the notes being hit extremely accurately, and “Perfect”/“Great”/whatever flashing on the screen constantly. There’s really nothing especially flashy or attractive about high-level music game play from a spectator’s perspective.


#6

Unless you play the games yourself, there’s nothing interesting about watching DDR/ITG tourney vids. Also, if the technology 10 years ago was as awesome as it is now, we would have most likely been seeing a lot of DDR tournament streams and whatever. But the competitive DDR scene was pretty much dead by the mid 2000s…in America anyway. Japan lost a lot of interest a bit earlier though.

I do wish there were more DDRX2 machines in America, though. The amount of new features and songs they’ve implemented over the years would’ve helped respark some amount of interest. I dunno about making it competitive again, but there are a lot of stuff that would lessen the whole “both guys got perfect scores” probability and whatnot.


#7

But stamina is more of a factor in ddr type games right? A 2-player IIDX game wouldn’t boil down to which player can physically outlast each other before they tire out. Hands will always outlast legs and feet. I would think people who have a favorite player to root for will hope to god that he/she won’t kill their legs before the other person does.

Why did you edit your post? It seemed more insightful to me than this one.

MUGEN is an unbalanced mess that can’t be found in an arcade. An ITG machine can be. Both players have the same notes in every song. The only way a MUGEN match can be compared to a difficult ITG song is if it is a mirror match between two Dragonclaws or something. They might kill each other in 2 hits, but at least it’s balanced.

But again isn’t there something to be said about the use of custom songs? I didn’t know that it was possible for dancepad players to achieve this level of speed in a song made for keyboard players. They obviously have surpassed standard ddr players in skill, so why wouldn’t I want to see 2 guys going ape shit over these intense songs? At the very least I’d like to see one guy pass out before the tournament is over.


#8

Trust me, the difficulty of IIDX blows away anything DDR has to offer.
[media=youtube]BjdvQy8FY5k[/media]


#9

It’s not about the points, it’s about the style.
http://www.ddrfreak.com/videos.php

See the date on that shit?

It says 2002. That shit is dead.

FUCKING DEAD.


#10

ITG is insane.


#11

That’s not what I mean. Watching a guy move his legs and feet around while twitching his body is more visually appealing than fingers typing. It’s also not as strenuous which can be a huge factor physically, outside of the game itself.


#12

I see that and I raise you

[media=youtube]4yk-ESYl7Bc[/media]


#13

that was actualy a good tune, dnb :smiley:


#14

Show them 14 key Mei too. If you think 7 key is hard look at 14 key beatmania IIDX stuff.
Or Guitar Freaks/Drummania XG stuff. Hell XG has what TWO bass pedals and 7 drum hits.

See this is where they got the ideas for Guitar Hero/Rock Band/DJ Hero from too. Ripped off from these games. beatmania has even been in japan arcades since 1997. And GF/DM since around 1999 in arcades.


#15

Watching a stream of a bunch of guys grabbing hold of the bar behind them for dear life while stomping on arrows is just as unappealing visually. At least with IIDX and Pop’n you’ll see a bunch of freakish notecharts and they are clear representations of just how freakishly good you have to be in order to even clear them.

It’s not like any of this will matter though, since music games in general are very niche and the thought of them being competitive is either nonexistent or virtually extinct.

I’m not saying one game is easier than another, btw. DDRX2 pretty much outdid themselves and arguably ITG with this lovely piece of work:
[media=youtube]RympUKTH_HU[/media]

One bit of craziness at a time, my friend. I think showing those old 6th Style tatsujin vids would be a nice “next step”, should the opportunity arise. :slight_smile:


#16

Was ITG the one that had bombs? Never liked that one.

Sometime style was the most important thing for DDR fans.
[media=youtube]AfSacI9ESLY[/media]


#17

@OP - while two players can FC a song, what determines the better player is a combination of timing, stamina, and technique. At high level play, players will choose songs based on how they are at certain aspects of the game. For example, someone who good foot speed and stamina but lacks good timing will most likely pick a 200+ bpm on someone who has really good timing but bad foot speed. Others, like myself, will be cheap and pick a song like Uprock CZ on PIU knowing their opponent doesn’t know the gimmicks.

A good amount of people still play at a competitive level and there are people who still run dancing game tournaments, just on other forums. AIJ is where most of the “elite” players frequent.

http://aaronin.jp/boards/viewforum.php?f=12&sid=d7354956f7422a0c09cd6cec7d26bf48

USPF11 (United States Pump Festival) is actually this Saturday in Vegas, and a big ITG one, Fort Rapids V (which I guess you can say is the equivalent to a FG major for the ITG community) is the weekend of the 15th.

The last tournament I went to in VA, we streamed it and our only viewers were people who played the game or our friends who don’t play but had nothing better to do.


#18

I am still unconvinced that a 1-2 minute song can get much in the way of stamina compared to long custom keyboard songs. Still, I appreciate the fact that Konami is willing to push the limits in their DDRX2 songs for technical players.

In this case, Beatmania, although it has more notes you need to press at high speeds, it still isn’t as physically demanding as custom ITG song. Enough time into a long song or mix, and you can tire yourself out. Now imagine 2 competitors trying to clear every note while on the brink of collapsing. This factor can can change their final scores significantly, or at the very least, moreso than IIDX can. Dude got many flashing greats on that song, but it seems to me that this guy wasn’t gasping for air at the end. Not putting down his skill though, that shits bananas.

Well that sounds reassuring. I would like to see what this experience will be like for everyone entering. If I see happy excited faces, that is more than enough for me to say that music games can be exciting to some people. It probably won’t get as much of a revival as Street Fighter 4 did for fighting games but it may at least be able to hold on.


#19

The other thing is that pretty much all of the competitive scene for Bemani in Japan is done via internet ranking through the arcade machines directly. Konami has done a couple exhibition-style tournaments here and there but they’re not the norm.

Are these games competitive? Sure, absolutely, in that people continually compete for the world’s high score on each song, etc. Are they “competitive” in a head-to-head Street Fighter kind of way? No, not really, aside from the occasional Western DDR/ITG tournament, but even those aren’t very exciting to watch.


#20

what also comes into play is the “off synce” songs
some songs are made and like in any other game, the input goes wrong and the step with the music maybe off-sync.

Having the custom entry song isn’t as advantageous as it seems… yeah it seems and IS cool, if your not in an area with producers, kids will riddle the machines with shitty songs :smiley:

people did use to play these games a lot!
sites like ddrfreak and so on had a great community, The southwest had (az, nm, etc) had a large one
but, people moved on and these games didn’t…

Much was in part to DDR not being released very often

and many of the people who played DDR didn’t like ITG, or stuck to other music games… mainly IIDX

PS… arcades are dead member…
DDR and music games were like the last hooray