5/2- Crane c.MK projectile invincibility, thanks to rez4frederick and Thebook.
4/30- Included some additional info from street11.
The other topic was (and still is) more of a SSF4 discussion thread. This thread is meant to be a reference for anyone that just wants to know what’s so different about him now.
Thanks to street11, rez4frederick, Thebook24, Redwolfx and Apricator for some additions/corrections.
Summary of major changes:
-Some normals have much better frame advantage for some new links and strings, or better startup/recovery.
-All waterfall kicks are now throw-invincible, EX version is fully strike invincible as well. LK version is faster and has a better hitbox.
-HP hands can be super-canceled through all 4 hits, making combos into super much easier.
-Crane c.MK now has some projectile invincibility, easily going under most fireballs.
-Crane anti-air super is now almost instant. It’s a lot like Hakan’s AA ultra, except it can grab you at a good distance.
-Jumps have higher/farther arcs, and they went from the fastest in the game to average speed.
-Mantis s.MK range nerfed, now roughly the same range as c.MP.
-Due to increased pushback and the range nerf, MK hands loops are gone and MK hands sweep is gone. They’re still possible off EX hands, but it’s barely worth it.
-EX wall dive lost its strike invincibility.
-Special moves build MUCH less meter, about 30% less in crane and 60% less in mantis.
-FADC combos are less useful, since they don’t rebuild as much meter.
-Most crossup wall dive setups are gone.
-A few damage nerfs to normals usually used in combos.
-Wall dives are faster, but they’re still horribly unsafe on block.
-Still no alpha chains.
-Parry glitch is still in.
-Landing frame glitch is still in (aerial stance changes don’t take effect immediately when you land).
Way too detailed change list.
-Back dash is actually better, he now goes straight from invincibility frames to airborne frames.
-Crane jump is now 36 frames airborne (same as Ryu). Used to be 33.
-Mantis jump is now 35 frames airborne. Used to be 32.
I know 3 frames doesn’t sound like a lot, but the difference between Ryu and Bison is only 4 frames. Higher jump arcs mean Gen can’t hit people so early in his jump either, which was a big part of the reason it was so difficult to AA him in vanilla. The jump arcs effectively make deep jump-ins easier though, which makes a jump fierce/roundhouse to ultra easier and stance change combos on landing slightly easier.
-HP hands pushback increased, now slightly farther than MP hands. Links afterward are no longer possible unless you use EX hands.
-HP hands and EX hands now hit on the 3rd frame (they were 4 frames previously)
-HP and EX hands can now be super canceled/FADCed on the first 4 hits, LP and MP hands on the first 2 hits. (All versions could only be canceled on the first hit before)
-Hitting someone with hands used to build 70 meter, now it builds ~30.
-All versions now throw invincible
-EX version is strike invincible to at least the first active frame.
-LK version is 5 frames now, strike invincible for the first 3?
-LK and EX versions have a better hitbox for combos/grounded opponents. HK and MK versions are worse for combos.
-Hitting someone with a full HK Gekiro used to build a whopping 176 meter, now it’s ~63. For comparison, Ryu’s jab DP builds 70 meter.
-Last hit now does 60/65/70 damage, depending on strength. All versions did 80 before.
-Does less stun. Mid-roll hits now do 20 stun, last hit does 80. All hits were 50 stun before. (A full HP roll used to do 250 stun, now it’s 160.)
-EX version does the same damage and stun as HP roll in vanilla.
-Used to build 85 meter for a light roll, and 105 for a fierce roll. Now it’s about ~56 and ~72
-While the charge time is the same, certain combos into the roll are easier or more difficult than before due to the changes in his jumps and the speed of some normals.
-EX wall dive lost its strike invincibility, retains fireball/throw invincibility.
-All wall dives now travel faster and leave the wall/ceiling faster.
-Still very unsafe on block.
-Most of the old standard crossup wall dive setups, where you just had to get the spacing right and Gen would fly over the opponent to land on the back of their head, are gone. The hitbox was changed, so now Gen falls onto the back of their head harmlessly. Crossup wall dives aren’t completely gone, but they are much less common.
-Used to build 30 meter for doing a dive kick, and 90 more for hitting. Now it’s 30/50.
-Both supers now do 20 more damage.
-Crane super is now 2 frames, down from 11. Really good as an anti-air now, and it can even work if they’re jumping backwards.
-Mantis super now recovers faster after it hits, which seems like a necessary change so mantis U2 could combo fully. It can cause problems against characters that flip back over Gen when they’re in the corner, though.
-Old ultras seem unchanged.
-New touch of death ultra deals gray damage. If the opponent doesn’t have enough life to take full gray damage, it will begin subtracting from their actual health. It can KO, but it basically needs to take off twice the opponent’s remaining health. Combos fully after a super (do it early) and against large characters after EX hands.
-Dive kick ultra can be done off a jump in any direction (as long as you’re in crane) and it MUST be blocked high. Combos after a deep wall dive.
Frame advantage listed as on block/on hit.
-s.LP: 25 damage, +3/+5, 11 frames total (was 30 damage, -1/+1, 15 frames total)
-s.MP: 55 damage, +5/+6, 16 frames total (was 70 damage, +2/+6, 22 frames total)
-Far s.MP: Also 55 damage, +5/+6, 16 frames total (was 80 damage, -1/0, 22 total)
-s.HP: 70,40 damage (was 80,60)
-Close s.LK: 40 damage (was 30)
-Far s.LK: Unchanged.
-s.MK: Range reduced by almost 1.5 training mode squares. Now 60 damage, -2/-1, 24 frames total (was 70, -2/+2, 27 total)
-c.LP: 20 damage, +2/+5, 12 frames total (was 30 damage, +1/+4, 13 total)
-c.LK: 4 frame startup, +1/+4, 13 total (was 5 frame startup, -1/+2, 16 total)
-c.MK: -3/-1, 23 frames total (was +1/+3, 26 total)
-c.HK: 85 damage, 100 stun, -7 on block, 32 frames total (was 100 damage, 200 stun, -13 on block, 38 frames total)
-j.LK: Always 50 damage (was 40 for diagonal jump, 30 for neutral jump)
-s.LP: -4/-2 (was -3/-1)
-s.MP: 18 frame startup, 43 frames total (was 23 startup, 48 total)
-s.HP: 17 frame startup, 41 frames total (was 22 startup, 46 total)
-s.LK: -3/-2, 24 frames total (was -2/-1, 23 total)
-s.MK: 100 damage (was 80)
-s.HK: 70,50 damage, first hit now causes knockdown vs. airborne opponents, second hit now has pursuit property (old damage was 80,70)
-c.LP: 0/+3, 14 frames total (was -2/+1, 16 total)
-c.MP: 70 damage, -3/-1, 21 total (was 90 damage, -10/-8, 28 frames total)
-c.HP: Now downs the opponent on counter-hit. Pursuit is possible, but not practical outside of the corner. Also, Gen now takes an additional 50% damage when he’s counterhit out of crane c.HP. He effectively suffers 87.5% extra damage when he eats a counterhit, instead of the standard 25%.
-c.MK: Has partial projectile invincibility from frame 1 through most of the recovery. Range increased by roughly 1 training mode square.
-c.HK: -16/-12, 38 total (was -21/-17, 43 total)
-Diagonal j.MK: 70 damage (was 80)