How do you guys feel Elizabeth is tier wise. I play her and love using her. I feel like during certain matchups she does really good in such as characters with non long range normals or not too fast wake up reversals but characters like Mitsu and Yu who have pretty good range on their normals and specials that can easily break Thanatos or bypass some attacks and all of Yu’s wake up reversal supers are so hard to deal with.
I think Elizabeth is pretty random. You either just blow her up after persona break or she keeps you away so far with Fears, Frozen, and just high damaging BnBs
she isn’t random, but she is hard to keep consistent. You need a few good reads and don’t have very much room for errors due to low health.
Liz seems like a matchup dependent character. What I mean by that is she seems to rape some characters (Kanji, Akihiko) but she seems to get wrecked by more characters (Mitsuru, Teddy, Aigis, Yosuke and Yu) yeah those three body everyone…but still I feels like she struggles to do anything against them. Thanatos is pretty ridiculous though. That said I’m not 100% sure how I feel about her placement but its only week 2 in America so she has tons of time.
Went ahead and made a ‘filler’ chart:
edit: Added the three worst matchups in the game (via Japan) to the chart. Nothing else should be 7-3 or worse.
edit2: Added rough impressions of the matchups I have experience with Naoto. Feel free to disagree, especially if your character is on the other end of something.
I like the idea of using the colour scales fo indicate matchup quality. Let’s use yours instead.
Also, I’d say Naoto vs Kanji is 5.5:4.5 - 6:4 in Naoto’s favor.
since 1-2 and 8-10 won’t show up I’d suggest to make the the “2 Red” the “3 Red” and the old “3 Red” the “4 Red”.
the “9 green” the “7 green” and the “8 Green” the “6 Green”.
While there’s no reason for them to show up right now, better / worse matchups may come about as the game evolves, and I’d rather not have to redo the entire scale just because one matchup evolves to be seen as 8:2. That said, maybe I should do this to accommodate 0.5-point increments?
Noted, set it as 6:4 in Naoto’s favor for now. I wasn’t sure if I should put it in as 6 or 6.5. Also, I can and will give you edit permission if you want it.
I feel like Shadow Labrys vs. Yukiko might have to be a 7.5 or 8 in favor of Shadow…it’s just really bad for her, I don’t know if Yukiko has anything useful in that matchup.
Actually, we really need some way to vet and check on who’s opinions on the chart should be considered.
I need an email address to add you to the editors’ list, I think, so PM me unless you know another way I can do it.
Vetting information… has always been an issue with community matchup charts. I vaguely remember the Dustloop community trying to put one together for BBCS and failing because there was no good way to verify information…
It’s too early to say for sure, but Labrys seems to hate fighting Liz. Labrys can kill her in 2 combos, but she has to actually hit her -_-. I also believe she has ways to get out of some of Labrys’ better traps (just from them escaping in matches) but I need to test that further.
I get the feeling Labrys might be bringing up the rear on some of these charts.
What I personally think the matchup chart is currently for Mitsuru:
Chie: 5-5 or possibly 4.5-5.5
S. Labrys: 5.5-4.5
Teddie: 5.5-4.5, possible 5-5
some of the earliest stuff I have seen and played against I have to say I see teddie as a top tier character the rest are pretty balanced the only one I dont really agree on is Akihiko he has the highest damage in the game but suffers greatly against any character with any sort of a projectile and a good keep away. He does especially terrible against Naoto and Kanji. Noato’s traps shut down his rush down and Kanji’s grabs make it a guessing game on approach. He also suffers on his persona abilities his jump C and standing C are powerful but can be easily dodged and broken and his gravity can help characters like Teddie and Kanji with strong approach moves. If you do use him I advise stacking meter and abuse his jumping B loops with meter he will be able to use ex weave which gives him invincibility and ex corkscrew(for more damage and invincibility). Oh and during kill rush if you hold back B it becomes unblockable but if a enemy hits you it can be stopped.
@ pfhor that pic…so awesome.
Im sorry, but Akihiko is far from being A tier. I have been playing him like crazy, and I can say out of the cast, he’s probably the worst character in the game.
Allow me to explain. He has no cr.LP as a low attack. His only low attack, is his sweep, meaning he has less mixups. All of his combos are dependant of his bar, but so is his ability to get in.
Name me any one character, and I can tell you why he utterly FAILS against him.
Also, @Zerog, thats not true. Kill Rush B cant be charged. You’re talking about his Hook. And it is useless to charge up in a fight, anyway. At least its useless to get in, unless you use a charged Ex Hook that absorbs damage, which has to be done after a kill rush or something else, so there is plenty of time for the enemy to evade, break it, or whatever. Every character in this game has anti rush down options. And he is the only pure rush down character. You do the math.
Any matchup that doesn’t show at least 6-4 in her favor is wrong. The character is seriously retarded.
Also S.Lab with only a 5.5 in Mitsuru’s favor? How do you figure that one?
Mitsuru is good, but she’s not that good.
Says the Mitsuru main. She certainly doesn’t lose to anything, and has all the tools necessary to deal with any situation. The fact that she can play however she wants (zoning, rush down, ect) should be proof of that.
mitsuru only slightly tough match up is aigis.and mitsuru vs narukami is definitely even. she is good, but people are overreacting if they feel shes good as aigis. although she isn’t far behind her at all.
edit: i do disagree with QED mu vs chie. mitsuru wins that 6-4. chie gets bullied at neutral and mid range. and mitsuru damage is just about comparable to chie’s in certain situations ( fatal counter, which isn’t hard to get with mitsu ). chie must work hard to get in and stay in which is hard with mitsu’s 5a. 2a. 2b. J.a, 5d, 2d, and ofc, her A/B droit which is excellent for setting up her frame trap game. chies saving graces are the fact she can low profile 5a pretty good, but that loses to a few things such as sweep which can get mitsuru started. i feel chie is only at advantage when she knock mitsuru down, especially in corner where her set ups get even stronger.
I believe Aigis and Teddie are considered the only bad matchups for Mitsuru, with Narukami being 5-5. Chie is definitely not favored versus Mitsuru.