Connection Between Frames and Links

Newbie Saikyo Dojo
#1

Been playing fighters for half a year or so and only recently started looking (seriously) into frame data.

When first learning about links in Super, it was my understanding that a link was “inputting the next move as soon as the first finishes”. Now I’m curious as to how this works as pertaining to frames. Does the first move have to have an advantage on block/hit more than or equal to the second move’s startup frames?

I would think the advantage would have to be more, giving the character at least 1 frame to actually link, but when looking at SRK’s Ryu frame data, his c.MP is +5 on hit and his c.MK has a 5 frame startup. Why do these link?

Sorry for the long-winded, n00b question m(._.)m

#2

I’m a noob, so I’m probably using the wrong terminology, but…

They link because the opponent literally has no frames where he can do something, because the active frames on your move start right as the hitstun on your move ends.

#3

Do I not need space between the last move ending and the new move beginning to actually input the command?

#4

5 frame startup means the attack hits on the 5th frame, and only has 4 frames of non-hitting frames beforehand. Besides that, you have the right idea. For a grounded link, the normal or special in question needs to leave you at plus frames equal to or greater than the startup of the move you’re trying to link.

#5

Ah, so the last start up frame and the first active frames are the same.

Thank you much.

#6

Frames is just a word people like using.

When your talking about linking combos that’s basically multiple pokes. The term your looking for is hit stun. Each poke has a different stun rate and in the combo trail shows you which pokes could follow up one after another.

#7

I wrote a frame data guide once over here:

But it seems like the post got mangled when the site got upgraded, so it’s pretty much useless now. I’d appreciate it if someone were able to retrieve the contents though, because it was quite a lengthy post.

#8

I know this has been answered before somewhere but I can’t search it without knowing the exact example used… I understand how to read frame data, but I’ve never seen 0+7 used as data before. It seems like most Ultras and Supers are recorded this way. My previous understanding was that you just use the total of the 2 numbers as your start-up, but that has to be wrong.

#9

As I understand, you’re right; I believe the first number is frames past during the super flash. If you do a super while the opponent is doing a move, they’ll move in “slow motion,” and this is the frame that’s referenced. If there’s a zero in front, then there is no movement during this flash.

Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong.

#10

The link only works if it hits. On block it could easily be countered with a split second focus or typically a crouching medium punch or special attack if you try to mash out a combo hoping the other person gets hit. The only difference from this or any other combo is that for some reason it requires a very specific and more difficult time input compared to pretty much any other game. I’d actually prefer the term Bitter used. Only works, if it hits. Light punch, medium punch, projectile or even just medium punch projectile, doesn’t matter where you start it’s basically a chain of the same combo. Other games such as Arcana Heart 3 have the same game play but it’s a hell of a lot easier to do a combo. These frames are merely the time you can do a move such as it is much harder in SF games to preform input, and a link is simply two or more moves such as the chain I mentioned.

#11

The reason I thought I was wrong was because of Viper’s c.MP xx SJC Ultra 1. According to the frame data, c.MP puts Viper at +6 on hit but her Ultra 1 is 0+7 frames. If the ultra were 7 frames it would be impossible to connect, but it definitely can be done. It could be just that the frame data is off a bit, but it’s only proved right so far.

#12

The SJC is what allows it to hit. You super jump cancel out of the recovery frames of the low strong, increasing the frame advantage from the move. Super/Ultra/Hyper/whatever it’s called for the game you’re looking at is listed in (pre flash)+(post flash). Viper’s low strong has 3 active frames, and 9 recovery, and 16 frames of hit stun. A perfect executed SJC if the move hits on it’s first active frame would give you the full hit stun value as frame advantage.

#13

Wow do I feel stupid now. Thanks for clearing that up for me.