Console Tournament issues! Please Read!


#1

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110730&page=5
7th post on that page.

Basically when it comes to console tournaments rules and guidelines arent looked into heavy enough because there are granted situations like what happened to me at ECC 8 and recently at TS6. At March Madness back in 2004 there was a big issue with “blue box” in Marvel where basically the systems randomly unregister and unrecognize the systems ports. It can happen with any game but Im just using this as an example.everying is on the console versions of these games are on PS2 so that resoves one of the issues, however it doesnt revolve ALL of the issues.
Now usually the rule is (to my knowledge) if the person hits start, whether intentional or accidentally they are penalized by enacting a do over of the match or disqualification. Usually they give the oposition 3 different options, in note they are given the obligation to

  1. Continue and resume the match
  2. Restart the entire match over or
  3. Disqualify that person (not the tournament coordiantors but the player himself is given this option)

Now theses rules arent enforced or officially enstrickened in any way because evey tournament coordiantor is different…some are leniant when it comes to this issue and some enact on the situation to how they see fit given upon the situation I guess. If someone is landing a combo on you and you pause puposely or accidental that can be justifiable cause for disqualification. What ISNT justifiable cause if the offense is performing or landing the combo and hits it on accident. What bothers me is " how is that person subjected to qisqualification" (of any sort) when he isnt the opposition:confused:
Wouldnt that call for cause upon a continuation?
It makes absloutley no sense to me that someone who is dishing out the damage and is either wearing down life or is going to actually kill that person subjected to a dq. Every situation is different but lets take this one:
Player 1 has 2% life and does an open move and Player 2 is about to kill him with a fierce or something but pauses it (obviously on accident) what would be the call for that situation? Simply unpause and finish it right. There could be 1 penalization or two continuation but why would you penalize the person who is about to or is coming close to winning…
That situation more than likely could just go as a continuation right? But who is really up to…The Player or the Director?..

The reason for this post is for the obvious, why is the offenseive player getting penalized!
“Offensive Pause” vs "Defensive Pause"
Rules and regulations for tournaments are not looked into enough plain and simple and Im tired of going to a console tournament having to worry about something like that because when I hit start on “ffensive” playing Cole at Texas Showdown 6 I was penalized yet when other players did it in the tournament on more than 4 occasions during the CVS2 tournamnet it was over looked, which in case makes me wonder…
Does anyone have an explanation and or a resloution to this effect?


#2

Possibly its because they favored cole.

However, from what I remember reading from you’re post, that you just had to restart the match.

Given that situation, if the more skillful person should win, then restarting the match shouldn’t be much of an issue.

But it doesn’t seem fair that you got screwed in your combo and end up having to redo the match completely while others who did similar supposively didn’t receive punishment at all (wasn’t there so couldn’t say for sure).


#3

i say ANY start = re-do the first time
disqualification 2nd time

i dun care if it is on purpose or not.


#4

I agree, that sounds fare to me. I always wondered how people hit start “by mistake”. Even on sticks that had close buttons, I’ve never hit start by “mistake”, and Marvel is my main game). As far as the DC ports, sometimes they get a little touchy, and all you have to do is relive the pressure of the cords hanging down from them.

If both players are cool with it, and agree it was a mistake, and chose to keep playing on a countdown unpause, thats fine, but I see no problem with the judges stepping in at all.

If you playing high level marvel and you are stupid enough to hit the start button on your stick, you deserve whatever penalty they see fit. Thats just the way it goes.


#5

It happens on ps2 as well. It’s not people pressing start, it’s usually the stick messing up


#6

I always thought you get penelised by a round.


#7

I think tournament directors from every major need to get together to set down some guidelines for console play. While they are at it, maybe even fine tune the arcade cabinet rules.

If every major had the same set of rules to follow with clear consequences for rules violations whether intentional or not, then maybe people like Jeron will not feel cheated out of an opportunity to beat a top player like Cole.

Correct me if I’m wrong Jeron, but I don’t think your “main” problem was with the actual restart of the game, (as much as that sucked) I think the “real” problem was that you witnessed others getting leniency on the same mistake you made. Therefore, it makes the restart of your match that much more unfair. I’d be pretty PO’d too.

Rules should be consistent for all and be enforced across the board. I do believe a restart or DQ would have been justified but not if you’re going to give others a pass on the same mistake.

Tournament directors need to change a couple of things. They need to stop the inconsistencies in decision making when it comes to enforcing the rules. Why should John Smith have to restart when Alex Valle doesn’t have to for the same mistake? Because we all think Alex was going to win anyway? Here’s a thought…

Even top players like Alex Valle have bad days, bad games, bad rounds. And even very good players like John Smith can have the game(s) of his life. He could very well have won that match but instead had to restart because of his mistake. Now, this would all be good with John but not when he can witness Alex making the same mistake in other games and not have to restart. How is that fair? BTW, I’m just using Alex’s name as a point of reference.

Lateness is another. If you’re late for your match or to even show up when you say you will - DQ right? NOT if you’re a top player! You can come 2 hours late and still get in. You can go out to dinner, come back and still get in. How often does this happen? Ask John Smith.

And don’t get me started on players that throw matches or won’t play each other. If you do that and “I” was the tourney director, I would DQ you on the spot and ask you to leave. A tournament is to produce a clear winner, not a bitch that won’t play his friends or better yet, play another top player for fear of being embarrassed.

I know I went on a rant but these issues do need to be addressed because if they aren’t, people like John Smith will always feel like they have even less of a chance to compete at any major tournament. The odds are stacked against him enough as it is.

~Decoy


#8

^^ hey john, lol. But yeah decoy is right. Strict fair guidlines need to be enforced.


#9

I totally agree with you Decoy tournament directors DO need to sit down and set down specific guidelines because its happening more and more. Im not the only one it happens but I get penalized and I know what thats about…
Your right, I dont have a problem with being subjected to penalization, however when I see guys like Choi, Valle etc. I say to myself "Why"
I’ve always said it from the beginning, Console Tournaments are very inconsistent and Directors go off favoites which is full of sh*t. No one wants to hear that and I damn sure dont.
The fact of the matter is “accidents” do happen but if you do something on accident in an offensive frame why should you have to take the fall for that. There are 3 situations you can call on in a match regarding pausing. Offensive, Defensive and Neutral. A couple of the pauses that happened afterwards that I witnessed were neutral pauses where the charcters were in the moiddle of the screen or performing a jump in. The neutral pauses can maybe call for a continue provided the specific situation ie: Player 1 jumps to player 2 and player 2 has a full level 3 meter that can punish but player 1 pauses. Situations like that call upon strict judgement. However it doesnt seem fit that Offensive pause like in my situation calls for anything but a continuation. Now take Defensive pause. Player 1 is up two whole characters to player 2’s 1 character. Player 1 maybe up two charcters but player 2 has an …lets say R2 Sakura with full meter and player 1 has no meter, Im gonna give two case scenerios, one for player 1 and one for player 2. Player 1 accidentally hits pause during the match, yes player 1 is winning but he is also up and winning. Now lets say that he pauses as player 2 hits him with a custom, What would be the call for this situation? Does player 1 get penalized on that call or player 2? In the scenerioof player 2 what if he hits pause during the course of the match? Or what if he pauses as hes performing custom?..Whats the call here?
There are tweaks and “loopholes” in console that noone looks at.
As far as status, favorites and names go No Im your “John Smith” or "Alex Valle"
Im “Jeron Fuc**ng Grayson” and thats all I am. Those of you who dont know me I let my track record speak for itself.
That is all!

Jeron


#10

What if restarting vs continuing were time dependent?

early in a match, it might be more viable to restart a match should bluescreen come up, since things normally don’t develop as much in a match. (like the first 20-30 seconds)

if a match were paused later, forfeit or continueing should be offered. more often than not, damage has been done(deep), and I hate it when the guy w/ 5% life immediately says “we’re redoing the match, ima be an ass about it, b/c i know i was fucked”


#11

#1: Don’t pause, and there won’t be any problem.
#2: “Defensive” vs “Offensive” pausing is subjective, and we need objective rules. You can’t worry about the call a judge will make, and try tp press the issue by adding to the calls the judge must make. Even if you pause in the middle of comboing the other person, you can still use it to your advantage by going for a reset as soon as its unpaused; easy for you since you know better when it will un-pause. You pausing while shoshosho’ing, sure, you can mash fierce and continue to shosho, but you can also fierce, f+forward, shosho as well. If you pause when your Hibiki’s c.short is blocked, you can either continue the BnB, or do a overhead xx whatever. A pause is a pause. and should all be treated equally.
#3: There is no reason a gameshark code can’t be found for each game that disables pausing and start+select resetting.


#12

I’ve often had matches where my hands were nowhere near the Start button and the game resetted.

My suggestion? Don’t have console tournaments. It’s just not worth the headaches.


#13

What a great idea, I’m sure that once small tournament organizers are done renting, transporting and finally hauling and setting up an arcade that they will be totally glad that they saved themselves the headache of one or two paused rounds.


#14

The alternative to not running console tournaments at this point, is to not run tournaments (other than the pre-existing arcade tournaments). I’m not sure what you mean.

At first the compassionate side of me would want to let it slide, but imagining what happens when 50 people all bring 50 different joysticks and expect someone to police their equipment brings me back to reality.

IMO the ‘correct’ action is to lose the round, without consulting the other player, even if your up 99% to 0%. A NBA player can’t say “nah that wasn’t a foul, for real it’s ok, play on”, and in general the players can’t agree to handle something outside of the rules, SF is very lenient in that regard, and i reject the idea that it should be more lenient.

Right now here’s where I stand:

  1. Pausing needs to be eliminated from tournaments, not merely ‘dealt with’
  2. Pausing is not an unavoidable accident that just happens, it’s a result of noone caring that much about it until they get screwed by it.

If i gave every player $1000 each if they played all their matches without a pause, I wonder how many ‘accidents’ I would see.

I’m not saying that the solution is brain dead easy and that only idiots would ever pause the game, don’t misread it. I realize it’s work, just work that has to get done. I have not seen anything conclusive that PS2’s pause themselves. DC’s do, so the solution is really just to not use them. PS2s as far as we know don’t, so it’s the player’s fault if it pauses.

I accept that players are not electricians and it may not be apparant that their stick is pausing the game, but it’s still their equipment causing the problem, so it’s their penalty.

If the directors have to solve it, the only thing they can do is ban everything and just allow ps2 pads or 2-3 tested joysticks (which you would have to buy yourself). I’m not sure they are the ones to be complaining to about this problem.

Toodles’s comment actually adds a new option, i’m concerned about the side effects of a code, but if it’s possible i’m all for researching it, if you know anything technical about the gamesharks post on tech talk and i’ll sticky, i don’t know how to make codes or anything.


#15

If you pause you lose the game. Possable exceptions for games that have nothing linking rounds(like super meter that stays between rounds), so for most 3d games and super turbo just losing the round would be enough.

Just think, its cvs2, your second character is almost dead, and your opponent just came in with A-blanka as anchor with no meter. You could pause, then say kill your character for the round to avoid A-blanka building meter to use on your anchor. Letting the person do whatever they want for the round(build meter, let your meter run out in games with that sort of meter, ect.) and making it just a round forfeit would be ok, but that could potentially get complicated, and while it would at least avoid a little bit of the loss from an accidental pause without your opponent being screwed by it in any way at all, I don’t see it as necessary as pauses aren’t common as is.

Of course should the two players agree to just continue the game, then I say let them.


#16

Beyond my bothers MAS stick sometimes not being detected in SFAC and that pausing the game, I’ve never seen an intance of my PS2 pausing for no reason at all.


#17

I’m glad you agree with me.


#18

Ok, I’m running my first fighting game tournament in less than 2 weeks. We are forced to use only console games, because the arcade down the street had to close several months ago.

I’ve hosted tournaments before, just with individual games, never several at once. I’ve heard we should be using for ST(PSX), CvS2 (PS2), 3rd Strike (PS2), GGX2#Reload(XBOX), and MvC2(PS2). This is a very low key tournament, so I don’t think various console bugs are going to be much of a issue for the tournament. Does anyone have any ideas on what MIGHT be a problem before I finish preparing?


#19

Thats not a “MIGHT”, thats a definate problem.


#20

I can get copies of the Dreamcast version. Is that preferable? It would actually be easier that way. I don’t play MvC2 btw.