Contrary to popular belief


#1

I mainly made this thread so that thoughtful people can try to hammer home, to the masses, that many popular notions ARE NOT CORRECT.

I’ll give an example, Ono and his team is not in charge of how DLC is implemented, yet MOST of us (which is not very good) seem to not be aware of this.

If anyone else wants to make an adequate case to inform the misinformed about anything related to FGs, feel free to do so.


#2

You aren’t the best; I’m the best.


#3

Notion that will prove to be incorrect:
This thread will prove to be useful.


#4

Did anyone blame Ono for the on disk dlc and pay to win ****?
I thought we just blamed him and his team for making the games suck, and Capcom in general for the gouging crap


#5

Hey folks, Neoblood here with a public service announcement.

Have you ever made a new thread in fighting game discussion? Was it about a meaningless topic? Was it poorly received? Next time you find your cursor hovering over the “new thread” button, just don’t click it.


#6

Myth: Sherryjenix is attractive.


#7

Same game engine does not equal same or even similar gameplay or graphical style.
Now at least there’s something useful in this thread.


#8

There were fighting games between SF2 and SF4
Virtua Fighter isn’t hard


#9

Best jokes.


#10

EDITed for clarity.

I still stand by my opinion even if the guys in the Tekken forums don’t agree.

Tekken was not always centered around juggling. In the past, there were no walls, no sidestepping/wavedashing, no ground bound and you could probably get 5-6 hits at most for about 40-50% damage depending on the character. The characters played similar to how they do in SFxT; lots of high/low attacks strings that led to critical hits. A rising LK (I think they refer to it as “3” nowadays) could do 40% on counter hit alone. The 10-hit strings were an offensive pressure tool; a way to force opponents to block correctly and open them up in a game that didn’t have characters wavedashing back and forth to pull off a juggle.

Juggling got more lenient in T3, and the Tag system in TTT expanded on it. Despite the improvement, It still wasn’t nearly as over the top as T5 & 6. Watch any high-level T4 match, and what you won’t see are a lot of launchers; juggles in T4 did minimal damage and they were only maximized by using a wall for the opponents to slide against for an infinite. Unless you were in the Arena stage, juggles weren’t nearly as prominent. They didn’t become the staple of the series until T5 and beyond. Ironically, that’s around the time Asuka, Lili, Lars, Leo, Alisa, etc. (characters that are popular amongst the modern Tekken crowd), debuted in the series.

You’d really have to sit down and play the old games to know what they’re about; spending a couple minutes screwing around in Arcade History/PsOne classics doesn’t tell you anything.


#11

Hrrm:

Actually, in Japan, the production team (the team Ono leads), normally dictates the marketing efforts (commonly the publisher when a organization is both the publisher and developer of a game like Capcom is for their products). So, it’s very likely (although I’m not 100% positive as I don’t work for Capcom) that Ono as well other product heads had ownership of what’s on the disc in terms of DLC simply because of the differences in practices from Japanese game development styles versus say, US game development styles where marketing could commonly have more dictation on the end result.

If this is not the case for Capcom, and marketing has more control like most US game developers and publishing studios, then I would still side that the product leads have say on what is offered on the disk. Mainly because, they are in charge of the production of said DLC in terms of helping decide what can be done and how it’s done on time before the product is launched to the mass audience. For example, it’s not uncommon for content to be planned ahead of time for every major game title in the world. Someone has to talk to the producer(s) to get said content mapped out for production and eventually released. When that happens, someone has to identify the costs, time and resources involved in said content being released. Those processes or normally a collaborative effort on both the production team (Ono’s team) and everyone else within the scope.

Anyways, I don’t blame Ono or the other guys for the decisions on the game. Someone tried something different and it obviously pissed off some fans. It happens, no game developer or publisher is perfect. To think they intentionally did something to piss you off is borderline retarded because you don’t run a business and release a product to lose customers (thus losing money) on purpose. They will learn from their mistakes (if such a mistake is a major issue to the mass market, not just on the forums) and improve going forward.

Cheers!


#12

Yeah did that, and after playing the games I realized that, T1/T2 would have been juggle heavy regardless of all that. The fact that I could do Twin Pistons, 1, WGF and do 50% with Kaz in T2 (Don’t let me get started with Heihachi and P. Jack). I see what you are trying to say, but Juggling wasn’t lenient in T1/T2 because it didn’t have to be. Everything did extraordinary damage, however if it would have been played competitively, no doubt would juggles would be at the forefront of damage dealing. 10 hits could be jumped over at some points I believe.

They were always a staple and T4 is the black sheep in the series for a reason that has nothing to do with Juggles.

Still Tekken is not centered around Juggling at all, one of the main damage dealers of course but its not centered around it. Even T1/T2 had some of the same movement based gamepay you see today. If there was a contrary to belief for Tekken, its that is really a movement heavy game that relies on pokes just like most fighting games at high level.


#13

I agree with a few points. You are right about T1/T2. Everything in that game did big damage, and juggles didn’t nullify all other forms of punishment. Armor King may go for a WGF juggle combo but regular King could chain grab you to death. Baek applied pressure with his high/low kick strings, Paul hit like a truck, and Lei was a unique character with his own bag of tricks. I doubt if we’d see Lei, Roger/Alex, and Paul doing juggles at high level.

10-hit strings had too much blockstun to jump out of unless you got pushbacked out of range; if that happens the opponent wasn’t close enough. Blocked hits prior to delayed attacks would put you in stagger state anticipating whether the next move hits mid or low. Once you’re able to figure them out though they did become somewhat useless like you said in the other thread.

I also agree that T4 had many problems (King of Jin Fist Tournament) besides nerfed juggles.

All Tekken games (barring T4) had an incentive to peform a juggle; they did decent damage, took away red life in TTT1, and they looked cool. It wasn’t until T5 that juggling became the dominating force behind the series. Before then, you didn’t get full juggle combos off a wakeup LK. You couldn’t jab someone in mid air, and take 50% of their vitality. Throws did not lead to full juggles. The juggle system became very prominent and characters were given additional tools and attack strings to help their juggle game. I believe part of the reason why there’s a lot of fan hate for Paul and Chreddy is cause they play more traditional Tekken in a game where everyone is ultimately looking to juggle the opponent to the wall. Paul still gets that old-school damage off critical hits and Eddy/Christie can play the heavily confusing high/low game.

When you’ve experienced first-hand the change in the Tekken series from its debut (I was 11 when I played T1) all the way until now, It’s hard to look at the series as a whole and say juggling was always a crucial component in the franchise.


#14

I may have started at T2 but I experienced the change first hand as well. Did not get the same feeling. I remember when I first learned that you could do juggles in T5 that you must’ve could have done juggles in the same manner just about in previous games. Juggles became more accessible yes, but that didn’t make them any less useful and they were always a have been dealer. People have problems with Chreddy because its chreddy. High/Low mixups are not a problem its the fact that the characters are unpredictable due to movement and you could just press buttons. Competitively, you see less of this.

With Paul…people press too many buttons. I never really saw anyone openly hate fighting Paul…you still have a point though. I still don’t think Tekken, fundamental is centered around juggles however, just made them more accessible and makes the opponent more cautious about how they play nowadays.