Controller port discussion (and inconsistencies)


#1

So, this is a thread to discuss the issue of controller ports, as it is more advantageous to be in the P1 spot instead of the P2 spot (and the lower your controller port, the better it is). Brawl has an arbitrary rule system in place that allows player 1 the advantage when things happen simultaneously. It is most noticeable during Bowerside (bowsers side + b move, which can be aimed off the stage and kill both players at the same time).

If P1 (bowser) uses bowsercide on p2, and both are on their last stock, then P1 is awarded a win.

If, however, P2 (bowser) uses bowsercide on P1, and both are on their last stock, then both are sent to sudden death.

This clearly means P1 has more incentive to play bowser than p2.

Heres a video showing a player who in particular likes to use this to their advantage, gimpyfish:

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If you look at each video, he is playing bowser in the p1 slot, every time. This was from last weeks FFA tourney.

Now, not to fault gimpy for using this tactic, but there needs to be a rule in place that allows the player to switch controller slot (or, if the person is using a wiimote that’s synced to a particular slot, move the controller to a higher slot). We’ve used the rule in capcom games before, where the loser gets choice of side. I think that is probably the easiest method to handle the issue.

Now, really, you can say that it only really matter if you’re using bowser, but that’s not necessarily true. It could be that the lower player always beats out the higher player on anything (i.e. both hit smashball at the same time, both grab the edge at the exact same frame, etc). Thus, it SHOULD be an option, even if it’s not utilized all the time.

What sucks the most is that the ruling is inconsistent: why does P1 on P2 = win, but P2 on P1 = sudden death instead of a loss? Seems like a pretty big oversight, since the brawl dojo even says that the bowser player dies AFTER the person he throws, whereas kirby/wario/d3 all die together. I haven’t fully tested it yet, but it seems that with warior and co it seems to send to sudden death each time.

Thoughts? Comments? Other solutions? Lets discuss!


#2

what about the wii pad? is using the analong stick to do smash type without typing in the moves considering cheating?


#3

Honestly…Bowsercide should be banned if its effectiveness is determined by control slot.


#4

there’s too much wrong with this. sure P1 has an advantage, but who’s to say this will happen. Can Bowser, on the last stock of both players, force an opponent to the edge and purposefully bowserside? if he can force the other player to the edge, why not just kill him? if he can’t, then he may not get a chance to bowserside in the first place unless the opponent makes a glaring mistake. Also… after having this knowledge, would YOU stand next to the edge on your last stock vs a P1 Bowser, regardless of what his stock was?

edit: I think in order for something to be banned, it has to be a perfect strategy with little effort that beats the crap out of all other strategies. this is a situational tactic


#5

Um, what game are you playing omfg? Bowsercide on the last stock is not only easy, but really common. A command grab with great range i can use on an opponent on ground or in air or guarding that i can do while moving forward in a short hop…

This is a huge issue (not only for suicide kills), and the suggestion of letting loser chose controller ports is a decent workaround…

It may take a minute to arrange, but what if a successful suicide WIN on P1 side was forced to sudden death anyway? (start new round with 1 minute timer and wait for SD to start on same stage as before)… or conversely, award the win to p2 bowser for bowserciding on dual last stocks even though the game goes to sudden death?


#6

lol hitting bowser’s command grab is retardedly easy as throws have such ridiculous priority in this game and i think his command grab also has a small amount of superarmor to it. Not to mention you can grab people out of the air or while your both in the air combined with bowsers ridiculous range it makes bowser annoying to play against as if he’s at 140% and your at 0% you have to avoid the edge at all cost (and he can move horizontally quite a ways) as he’ll eagerly trade in that situation.

Player choice is the only really way to balance it imo. Loser choses his slot and coin flip or whatever you want to decide it first game.


#7

Well the player with the lower health % actually controls where his throw lands, so if he’s at 140% and you’re at 0%, you really shouldn’t be dying

But still, it will (and does) happen


#8

eh… if it makes things more simple…

since its known, if p2 does it to p1 and the game goes to sudden death, give p2 the win.

if he was p1, he would have won. now, there’s no mind games, you just play it like its supposed to be played.

but before this, and i can’t test for myself since i’m working so much…
-how does this work with other control ports? there may be p2 or p3 that excute this differently. what if p4 does it to p1?

i can’t say exactly, since i usually don’t believe much until i see it with my own eyes, but its all possible… i’ve seen much odder shit.


#9

[immaturity]UR STUPED!!11! BOZAR R00LzZZz!!!LOLOLOLOLOL!1!![/immaturity]

Also remember, online. Host is player 1…Kinda like Host advantage XD.

As a Bowser player (and as one fairly confident with his Bowser game) I’d say “give it a shot.” I agree the whole thing with Bowsercide is fucking stupid, too bad you can’t flip him while he is a P1 Bowser. Would have made it interesting and not nearly as abusable. My friends on brawl know.

“Hey wanna play brawl?”
“Sure.”
“Want me to host?”
"FUCK NO!"
so I am forced to P2 ALL the time. (and player 4 in FFAs and teams :shake: )

Even without the Bowsercide, the move itself is an HUGE part of Bowsers game.

And wait…you mean, we DON’T play out SDs? :confused:

Lamewadd: Thats…Thats unholy! Banning Bowsercide!? BLASPHEMY!
Subt-L: Player 4 has NO controller priority while player 3 only beats out player 4


#10

Whomever has lower percentage has MORE influence over which way he moves, but that doesnt mean bowser ever has zero influence.


#11

At least it isn’t “random.” :lol:

A coin flip would be totally random, though.

Just sayin’.


#12

I find it VERY hard to believe that tournament worthy players would be caught in that situation on a regular basis. first off, the opponent has to be near the edge. second, that’s rock paper scissors. third, all of that is assuming platforms don’t stop the belly flop early, and that bowser can reach the opponent (I’m not talking about the range of bowsre’s grabs). even if all conditions of those conditions were fulfilled 24/7 in Bowser’s favor, then that’s just tough luck IMO. I don’t think that’s powerful enough to have its own rule. it’s merely a plus for bowser, not the whole cake. not saying I wouldn’t try for player 1 slot though


#13

If I’m not mistaken, there were setups in CvS2 that can only be done by P2, yet they were allowed.


#14

Wow. :confused:


#15

hm i guess I’m gonna stop responding to your posts. you like to blab what you feel but you don’t like to debate about it. if you honestly feel Bowser can land those exact conditions 100% of the time, then produce someone who can.

Let me make myself perfectly clear… I just looked at the videos and I realized not all of them are in referral to that 1P advantage. Bowser’s suicide bellyflop can be landed in a match pretty easily. But if you’re trying to tell me that a Bowser will land a suicide bellyflop when both players are on their last stock and both players are aware of this tactic, and that THAT tactic is so powerful it needs to be banned, you’re outta your fucking mind. I’m not even gonna debate that part with you

edit: I think in order for a tactic to be banned, it first has to be very powerful. Bowserside can’t even pass THAT test.


#16

The issue here isn’t about the Bowser-side being powerful at all, omfg. It’s about the fact that Bowser in the Player 1 slot has an advantage over Bowser in the Player 2 slot.


#17

@omfg - What does 100% of the time have to do with ANYTHING? If Bowser is p1, he will be LOOKING for a suicide flop when you are both on your last stock. This happens VERY FREQUENTLY, especially on smaller stages (that bowser will put you on with counterpicks).

No one is talking about banning Bowsercide, you moron. Learn to fucking read. Thats why im rolling my eyes at you. The issue, is WHO gets which controller port, WHEN, and WHY? We need rules to govern this for situations like Bowser vs Bowser.

Talk like you know me? When have I EVER asked to have ANYTHING banned? God damn, kid.


#18

Actually, any Bowser is probably looking for a Bowser-side at any time that he is at a disadvantage; the only reason doing it at the opponent’s last stock is better is because he doesn’t lose whatever damage advantage he had.


#19

So what if Bowser’s not 1P? that only means he loses a slight advantage. if Bowser in 1P slot has a bigger hit frame on his right foot that’s a teeny bit bgger than 2P Bowser’s, I don’t think people are going to give a damn about whether or not they receive 1P slot or 2P slot. I think this entire thing is ridiculous. I’m glad I don’t play Bowser, I would have to uppercut the shit out of any fool who wanted to debate which slot I got.

i’m done with you. have fun spewing obnoxious crap.


#20

so this sounds really stupid… not you, the idea that someone needs to be a higher controller slot to bowsercide you.

it actually makes next to 0 sense.

so if p3 bowsercides p1 or p2, then its sudden death. if 4p bowsercides anyone its sudden death?

but 1p can bowsercide anyone, and gain a win? if p2 bowsercides p3 or p4, then he gets the win?

it seems like the coding for that would be fucking retarded and almost intentional…