I decided to make a new thread because the old one was pretty sketchy and had obsolete information. This one will be much cleaner and to the point.
I made a reference video for all the main counter setups I will be testing on the whole cast:
The counter setups:
A) Kamikaze & Fake Kamikaze
B) Stay Down
C) Hard Stomp & Instant Hard Stomp
D) Fly With Me & Dance With Me
E) I Believe I Can Fly
F) I Believe I Can Touch The Sky
G) Gimme A Hug
H) Catch This
I) Catch Me If You Can
J) Hop & Crazy Hop
K) Midscreen OS, Corner OS and misc OS
L) Safe Jumping & Crazy Nympho
M) Fuhajin Lockdown
Most of those counter setups are accessible after all possible knockdowns (techable and untechable). They just require minor calculated adjustments.
Ideal untechable Knockdown Scenarios:
- Sweep (point blank)
- Combo into Sweep (cr.mk, M Fuhajin rel, Sweep)
- Back throw
- Forward throw (midscreen)
- Forward throw (corner)
- M Super (point blank, midscreen)
- close st.hp xx M Super (midscreen)
- H Super (corner)
- Ultra 2
Techable knockdown scenarios:
- cr.mk xx H Pinwheel
- cl.st.mk (one hit) xx Fuhajin Store
- close st.hp xx L Pinwheel
- H Fuhajin rel (anti-air), dash xx L Pinwheel
- EX Dive Kick, L Pinwheel
- jf.mp xx L Dive Kick (one hit)
- Dive Kick (two hits)
**Note: **Most techable knockdowns require the exact same timing. 2 hit Dive Kick is an exception. On a side note, H Pinwheel is the only techable knockdown that leaves Juri outside of sweep range so that knockdown requires different spacing.
Basically, if you land any of those 16 knockdowns, chances are you can follow up with a counter setup. Some counter setups are even possible after you anti-air with cr.mp or after you air reset the opponent with cl.st.lk / cl.st.lp.
Kamikaze is “rushing down and attempting to hit the waking opponent with a meaty cr.mk, cr.mp or cr.hp”.
To achieve Kamikaze, you can either:
-Dash twice after a *Sweep, Back throw, *or after most techable knockdowns (alternatively replace the 2 dashes with a Sekku or far st.hk).
-jf H Dive Kick, Dash after a midscreen forward throw
-Dash 4 times after a corner forward throw
-jf M Dive Kick, cr.hp after a point blank M Super
-jf H Dive Kick, Backdash, Dash after a cl.st.hp xx M Super (midscreen)
-Dashx2, cr.mp or nj L/M Dive Kick after an Ultra 2
So the way I’ll write that information up is like this:
-Pre-ender inputs before ender
Then I will list my testing results like this:
Works on: Balrog ( )
Doesn’t work on: Adon ( )
In the parentheses I will specify things like: (cr.mk avoids all versions of headbutts), (you can use cr.hp or cl.st.hp instead of cr.mk) or (trades in Juri’s favor) etc.
I know this is a lot of info but you don’t need to memorize everything. Basically, you just need to understand which setups are more appropriate for each chunk of character groups.
The pre-ender inputs are just to help get the spacing and timing down. You don’t really HAVE TO know all that by heart. All you need to know is where to be when the opponent starts getting up and be aware of the main character groups (faster reversals, slower recovery etc.). Once you get used to the different characters wake up and reversal speeds it becomes easier to get the timing down.
In addition, we can categorize reversals in this way:
- Stationary reversals (moves like Guy’s Tornado Kick)
- Traveling reversals (moves like Rising Jaguar)
- Full Screen reversals (moves like Psycho Crusher)
And characters into these groups:
- Fast recovery / 3f reversals
- Normal recovery / 4-6f reversals
- Slow recovery / 7-9f reversals
That will help determine which setups, spacing and timing to use.
I’m still theorizing about this…