Creating a Non-Big 4 MvC2 tournament league, gathering opinions


#1

Recently Ive been thinking about trying to create a mid-tier tournament scene in MvC2, so Ive decided to put this poll up and get players opinions on this. Ive talked to a few of the local players and they think it is a good idea as well. With all of the talk that MvC2 is dead, and also the influx of people on the SRK board that like playing low tier, this seems like a valid proposal, does it not? So basically, you could call it Non-Big 4 (NB4) Marvel. Since it seems like everything has been found in competitive Marvel (though I doubt that), this could be a breath of fresh air for the scene. There is a little dilemma I have with Iron Man though, should he be considered top-tier as well, due to his infinite and the ease of killing whole team when he connects it? Should Heavyweight Marvel actually have a Big 5 instead of a Big 4? I call it Heavyweight as an analogy to the boxing world with Heavyweights, Middle, Welter, etc. There could be dominators in both classes however, as I and probably many others have seen J. Wong cripple even top tier teams with his mid tiers. I know there are mid tier tourneys sporadically popping up in different places, but this is a call for a more national (maybe even international?) scene. Also Id like to ask, what teams do people think would dominate NB4 Marvel? I would love for this scene to get created, so the mid tier characters would be developed to their highest potential, due to tournament play. :karate:

Mods, may I please have a sticky?


#2

Remeber strider/doom and spiral/sabertooth, and juggernaught. They would still have a peak advantage.


#3

Nice concept, but I see 2 hurdles:

  1. Decreased legitimacy… you’ll get a lot of heat about that.

  2. Decreased challenge… a lot of the point of being good with low tier is being able to say “yeah, I can in fact beat average Mag or Storm with so-and-so”. That all gets taken away when you mandate low tier.

And IM is not Big 4; it’s a great infinite, but past that he can pretty much get his a$$ beat just like the rest of the cast. And yes, I realize that there are a few very deadly IMs out there.


#4

True, but their are counters to them, mainly psylocke and cyclops, well actually I have never played against Spiral/Sabertooth. But you know, just like in top tier Marvel, people have to learn how to fight it. Like Ruby Heart is great against Spiral right? Or Strider can counter Spiral too, right.


#5

Rogue/tron/cyke would dominate
rogue/capcom/XX also

megaman/ tron/XX also

I don’t know for sure if Ruby is great against spiral… but i do know that ruby’s wave move (qcf+k) completely erases all projectiles (except storm’s) , including spiral’s knives, so ruby has that advantage by taking away the most important part of spiral’s game.


#6

All you’ll do is cause new tiers to emerge. Strider/IM/Doom looks viable


#7

Hey what up Rod, well I don’t quite get what you mean about decreased legitimacy. Could you explain. As far as challenge, well, I do think lower tier characters would be developed more, but more or less this is supposed to be an arena for mid tier, so I think the challenge is still there. I mean for example I see someone like Wong winning against top tier with mid tier teams, even winning some tourneys with them. So he may enter a NB4 tourney, the challenge will still be there for the other players. Also it’s not like you have to play in only one arena. Personally, I would probably enter both.


#8

I am a noobe at this game are the big 4:

  1. Sent
  2. Strom
  3. Mag
  4. Capn’ Comando (as an assist)

#9

While the idea is at least new, it doesn’t really change anything. Eliminating the top tier only pushes the next tier (Iron Man, Strider, Doom, Rogue, etc…) up to the top tier. As evidenced in teams earlier in this thread, you’d just have new combinations that dominate (because those same combination are already viable threats to true top tier teams) and the rest are still as useless as ever.

One would figure that despite there always being an established top tier, players have gone out of their way over the last five years to actually break the rest of the characters in the hope that they will emerge as the next big thing in Marvel and shake things up. Bottom line is that hasn’t happened and won’t happen so we should be content with what we have because it’s all been beaten to death and have fun using mid stuff to take out top stuff.


#10

im/cyke move up to top 2 basically

It might be more entertaining, but it will lose more than it gains overall imo. Just because there are only 5 teams being used may become boring locally, but when you travel i think it changes a lot.(styles,techniques,tricks,strats)
Playing the game at a lower level(overall) isn’t that appealing to me, but it would be a fun ass tourney.

But yeah low tiers can easily beat top tier if YOU REALLY want to win. Justin could have probably qualified top 8 with his gambit team imo. And there are a lot of low tier players that tear shit up(justin k esp.)


#11

It’s sounds like a great idea but I see a few problems.

  1. There are more characters then IM that will then be abbused.
    War Machine, Spiral, Rogue, capcom, Psylock, Cyc, BH, Doom, Tron and most of all STrider. It will just end up becoming the big 10 as opposed to the big 4.

  2. Assist characters will be abused more then ever because their is no one to punish them. Psylock, Cyc, doom, Tron, BH, and especially commando will piss every one off more then the big 4 already do.

  3. The game will slow down dramatically. No mags, storm, and sent will make things much slower. The game will go back to the “primative ages” of BH fp + call out doom.

On the bright side it would definetely be different but I doubt it would hold.


#12

Yeah, a new top 4 will come up automatically. and if you take them out, another four will come up as top. All up until you only have four left in which case you still have a top 4.


#13

whats this doom/strider combo people are talking about? is there a vid somewhere of someone using them to their potential? or is it just easy catches?


#14

Why don’t you just have a tournament where noone can use Supers? Or wait, wait, I got it. Have a tournament where the only players you can choose are:

Dhalsim, Zangief, Charlie, or Dan.

Or, you could just put up a big sign that says, “NO SELECTING CHARACTERS THAT ARE TOO DIFFICULT FOR ME TO BEAT!”

Like, if you pick RYU,KEN, and DAN and they pick SENTINEL, CABLE, and MAGNETO, you can say, “You’re disqualified because those characters are too difficult for me to beat and it’s my tournament so I can do whatever I want.”


#15

Well, I used a non big 4 team for the longest time (Strider/Cyke/Doom) before I finally learned Sentinel for the first time last year. Let me just say that one of the more rewarding experiences of using non big 4 characters is beating big 4 teams in tournament play. At ECC, i already brought out my Strider/Cyke/Doom team and had it ready for specific big 4 matchups. There were also a few more characters i had ready to bring out. I probably would have brought in Iceman if I fought Julian Robinson’s Blackheart or Colossus.

A tourney eliminating certain characters like the big four would be controversial because who’s to tell someone like Julius Jackson that his characters aren’t top tier? Or Vegita X and Joe Zaza? Who’s to say they’re game isn’t “top tier in disguise”? Clock wouldn’t have a problem adapting to this. Omega Red/Strider/Doom anyone?

But this does open a lot more opportunities for other players. Guys like Justin K and Mike Z go from Upper middle tier players to now top level threats in the tournament.


#16

http://zachd.com/mvc2/#eccx

any match with kai. dude’s a BEAST with strider.


#17

Any videos of Spiral/Sabertooth? I’ve never seen that combo in action.

And, don’t forget Justin K’s Gambit/Morrigan/Sonson. That video like inspired me and stuff. :clap:


#18

Sent, Storm, Magneto, Cable…

CapCom is a monster assist though…


#19

What’s up, Eric… :cool:

“Decreased legitimacy” means responses and attitudes like CDL’s… and I’m afraid that most of the people who actually still roll out for tourneys would feel similarly. Not saying what’s right or wrong, just stating how I think things would be.

I’ve had a lot of fun with low-tier matches on the rare occasions where I can play, but when you’re talking about gassing up the ride (@ today’s prices, no less) and rolling out it’s a major consideration. Nothing irks a serious competitor more than the feeling that they aren’t being taken as a serious competitor - even if they actually did have fun. One thing I’ve learned is that people play for a variety of reasons, and another thing is that like it or not the “top tier or you’re wasting your time” mantra has been ingrained into many gaming attitudes from things like Dom 101 articles and such, and it’s here to stay.

It can work, it just has to be marketed to the right individuals and everybody has to be on the same page attitude-wise.


#20

You are missing the point. It’s not that anyone’s too difficult to beat. I play the top tier just like anyone else, but this is just something new, the arena for lower tiers. Well, its just that a lot of people like to play the other characters, and this is good to develop other characters in the game (not that you can’t do that anyway though). Marvel changed over the years and it’s pretty much determined who the top 4 are and for the most part everyone uses them. For the last part, Sent Cable Magz and Storm are out automatically so I don’t know what you mean by being disqualified for picking them. One more thing it’s not like you can’t just play low tier in the regular tourneys anyway, if you want.