Creating an AI based on Top players? Is this possible?


#1

While unlocking hidden characters and playing through all the stages of the survival & time trials, I’ve noticed one thing. The AI in this game is genuinely terrible. Most characters all seem to have a certain inhuman pattern of attacks & defenses.

For example, on the hardest difficulty when you play as Blanka/Honda against Akuma, when you do a ball, Akuma ALWAYS reversal you with DP…doesn’t matter if you’re at mid screen or right next to him. Then you’ll see the AI’s inability to counter Zangief’s lariat (except cammy & when the AI has ultra). Ever play as Sagat vs Honda AI, Honda will continue to attempt to jump over your high tiger shots and getting hit every single time? How about the AI continuously using FA after FA when you do a single hit.

This AI is just so bad…it is absolutely no fun because the AI doesn’t behave like a human player one bit.

Now that I’ve finished unlock everything. I’ll never play against the AI again …ever.
I have been thinking about this for a bit. Would it be possible to create an AI based on top players? or even just some decent human players? A program that reads the behavior of a human player using replays as input and a data file as an output that players can d/l to their system and maybe you can select that AI and play against it.

This will require tons of work…i know…I can’t even imagine …you’ll have to use tons of replays vs each chars in the game…

Can you imagine what it would be like playing against AI of Daigo? =)


#2

That would require a real AI since the top player’s biggest strengths and advantages are being able to read your habits and adapting accordingly.


#3

OK I know I’ll probably be getting reactions like these but I was really hoping that in future games developers/programmers will consider this and make future games have better AI.

Do you really like or satisfy with this AI in SFIV? Wouldn’t you want AIs that actually plays like a human player instead of predictable patterns?


#4

Chun, you’re a dick… could you not have said what you said in a manner in which something constructive could be gained or are you tied only to asshatery?


#5

you stoopid.


#6

Well an A.I. for a game is simply someone’s interpretation of the game. You’re fighting a heuristic. Unfortunately there isn’t much more the computer can do besides cheat. Either it reads your inputs and counter accordingly, or it just become as dumb as dirt. You really can’t beat the AI except if you cheat it.

In either case, player ghost are a good idea. To a degree. Keep in mind if you had a heuristic of Justin Wong and Daigo, you’ll only get their interpretation of the game. Meaning at best they’ll use setups or punish you harder for some things. But oveall they’ll fall into a pattern as well. The best way to enjoy the game is to play against other people (preferably offline, but online would probably be good if you have no one).

VF did use player ghost and it most certainly was a decent AI. The problem is that it would fall for certain patterns. Elemetary baits would murder this AI. But for what it’s worth it was decent at least.


#7

fucking trolls are working in unison over here


#8

I don’t know…At our local arcade after MVC2 and Third has been played for a while. Once in a while you will see CPU characters pull off some human shit. Like Storm flying up, down multiple times performing like a 25-hit air combo and shit like that…


#9

That was always like that. Storm and Rogue would randomly start beasting; I wished more of the AI did that.


#10

Uhh… So play a human player?

Do you not have friends?


#11

i always wondered about the random beast mode with a.i. like, what the fuck triggers that. you’ll be drinking a beer, playing all lazy against the a.i, and be like, did i just get smacked on the ass a bit just now.


#12

Fatal/Fake in his “Fatal” level has the most “human-like” AI ever in a fighting game… 80% damage combos and so on. More game needs something like this.


#13

Or perhaps they could dedicate extra data to record patterns based on players input based on various situations and scenarios and have the AI play this back during fights to mimic the player.

I think Virtua Fighter 4 does something like this with the AI Training mode.

If they were to take this further and make it more advanced with AI profiles in which players could upload their AI data to merge with your profile to expand the possible ways or playstyle to the AI in terms reaction to moves and what.

But this could also hurt the game by making an AI so good it knows what to do in every single situation in every possible scenario, and thus the human mistake or common flaw isn’t factored into this. Because people can mistime moves and make mistakes under pressure. There is no such factors when playing against the AI, as it’s just a machine, it does not break under pressure, it just performs commands as directed.

It would have been nice if the trainable AI idea could be implemented but with the presence of human mistakes factored into this for realism. I am unsure if this possible currently, as most trainable AI has a result in the end would be an AI programmed to the point in which it is flawless in everything it does, and that also isn’t very challenging but more of an act of tedium or frustration to overcome.


#14

Who the hell cares about CPU AI you dolt? Play people, it’s obvious and simple. People want computers to do everything nowadays with a complete disregard for humans (as wierd as it may sound).


#15

It happens when you get the CPU down to critical health and don’t finish them off quickly enough, they go into “Berserk” mode. Other characters do shit like that too, they block everything, except random projectiles, start throwing you at impossible times and ranges, etc. I make it sound more vexing than it is, but it is annoying.


#16

Sure, if you go all out, you could probably make an unbeatable AI.
But it won’t teach you playing against people.
3rd Strike: only safe attacks, parry everything, break every throw.

But that’s not how people play.

You post here so I suppose you have internet. Take SFIV online, it’s pretty good most of the time, I’m having a lot of fun :slight_smile:


#17

I play online & offline all the time with friends but to unlock all those colors, titles and icons unfortunately you got to play against the AI and they are frustrating to play against…I think Capcom really didnt put too much effort into this because most people care about the online play only…but then there is the option to fight against the computer while waiting for someone online to send you a fight request…and I never use this option simply because the AI is so bad.

I really think it is not too much to ask for…I dont want an unbeatable AI but an AI that is fun to play against…and to do that it needs to play like a human.

An another reason I want this is to get a feel of what it is like to play against top players like Daigo, Justin Wong, or Poongko etc…I am not sure about you but I sure wont get a chance to play against them online or offline.


#18

The only way I could see something like that happening is based off of percentages, like half the time the computer “expects” you to go low, the other half it “expects” you to go high, and that adjusts according to what you do. If during a fight you continually go low, it’ll start blocking low, leaving it open for a high attack and so on. If it figures out that you’re psyching it out, it’ll learn to get around that using the percentage thing again. Of course, I’m not a fighting game expert, and I’m not a game programmer, so I could be completely wrong here too. But either way, I’d like to see some more realistic A.I. in fighting games. You can say go play with a human all you want, but not everyone has strong fighting game communities, and even if you do, they won’t always be around. I didn’t have a soul to play with back when I lived in Kentucky, so all I had was the A.I. None of my friends were interested in playing.


#19

It’s not worth the effort it would take.


#20

Well one of the reasons why I brought up the idea of trainable AI, or AI that learns based on your attack patterns, is primarily for practice mode. I would love to be able to play against someone that has my identical playstyle so I can understand first hand what my flaws are and use that knowledge to learn new strategies and further improve.

Someone is always better then you out there, being that there is a counter to ever play style and so forth. But there is no possible way to play against yourself.

If there was a AI training option in the newer Capcom fighters allowing the AI to learn your play style and attack patterns to be used against you it would semi-emulate this experience of playing against an opponent that does what you do. And also refreshing to find out first hand what attacks and strategies work best against your own, thus finding means to work around this.

(I’m not talking about a record function either, but rather an AI that is a blank slate with basic gameplay programmed in, And simply whatever you do is saved to a file on your game save.)