I’m pretty sure it two if you attack and zero if you don’t. If it was 4 you could never safe jump a 5 frame reversal.
I was editing my post as you replied, will just do a new post:
So I did some more searching to learn about the landing recovery frames properties and got the info from SRK’s wiki pages (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fighter_IV/Game_Systems/Landing_Frames_Trip_Guard).
Here’s what I understood so far and someone please correct me if I’m wrong:
So when you perform a jump-in attack, there are 4 landing frames, you can’t do shit on the first 2 and that’s why 3 frame SRK’s are impossible to safejump. It says that you you can block on the 3rd and 4th landing frames which is why we’re able to safejump 4 frame reversals, but it also mentions that you can’t special cancel or do Anything else but block during these 2 frames, since EX TT is a throw so it can’t be blocked, is that the reason why it’s beating the safejump?
An example of a perfect 4frame safejump vs Abel’s EX TT:
Last active frame of Akuma’s j.hk (or DF palm) > 1st frame of EX TT
landing frame 1 > 2nd frame of EX TT
landing frame 2 > 3rd frame of EX TT
landing frame 3 (can block only) > 4th frame of EX TT
landing frame 4 (can block only) > 5th frame and EX TT got active so you get grabbed because you can’t do anything but block
3 frame normal reversals are impossible to safejump as we already know, but when it comes to grab attacks, it seems like 1-5 frame startup grab moves are impossible to beat with normal safejumps if they have enough hit invincibility frames and get active after you land (i.e I tried with Gief 0 frame U1 it got active while I’m still in the air so it didn’t work, even though the frame data says it has 3 active frames).
For example these moves seem impossible to safejump normally:
- Gief & Hawk’s EX SPDs, they both have 4 frames of startup
- Makoto EX grab, 5 frame startup but vulnerable to palm since it has armor
- Akuma’s U1, 4 frame startup
These will lose if you delayed your jump-in on purpose so you’d hit them out after the hit invincibility frames are gone, but I don’t think that can technically be considered as a safejump, because if the opponent has other normal relatively fast reversals, you’ll lose to them.
Also there are some moves in the game like Ibuki’s U1 or Rog’s U2 grabs, I’m pretty sure these are impossible to safejump if you did a perfect 4f safejump, but they have like 1 frame of invincibility so they will lose to jump-in’s that aren’t done as fast as possible (i.e 5f safejumps which is what most people time usually anyway).
Again, if I said anything wrong please correct me guys because I don’t want to confuse people with false information lol.
Akuma FAQs: Quick questions & answers!
Alright guys. This is my first upload of a replay. Still figuring out video settings but the quality seems good enough. Feel free to rip me apart.
Not bad. Your opponent was pretty straight forward though and I believe you could’ve punished more of his jump ins with AA SRK or cr. HP. The only thing I can say is: Why did you FA crumple him after a Dizzy then do U1? Should’ve done the Ultra naked for more damage (maybe even the win).
Thanks for the comments. Here are 2 more matches against a decent Ibuki player. I have 0 matchup experience against ibuki since i just started playing ssf4. Please comment
hey everyone I uploaded some new commentaries with akuma discussions on 50/50 mixups and some other stuff… Some people have said they enjoyed it so i figured i’d post it here.
stop by and check them out, I’ll post a new set focusing on some more akuma stuff later tonight.
Rugi, you gonna be at Evo this year?
afraid not man, i don’t have the money for it this year.
Heh! I was checking out youtube on my GalaxyS when I happened to catch your videos and I was so happy that you’re playing Akuma again! I’ll have to re-watch the last two vids where you go into the D-Jay matchup as that’s one of my worst ones…
Your video on the Dee Jay match up has helped me immensely. I suppose I just had to realize you cant Vortex him and have to beat him in the ground game
Why wouldn’t you be able to vortex him? Yeah his 4frame EX upckicks is a very good AA on wakeup, but Deejay is tatsu sweepable and after that Akuma can safejump his 4frame reversal with instant jump command dive kick, those are very good options to vortex him IMO.
Mhh if the only thing we can do is safejumping with D+MK (how’s his wakeup? if that’s standard and that safejump is a 1framer, then it’s even risky), our vortex is pretty much gone I’d say. I mean, you’re just baiting stuff, that’s not supposed to happen frequently against a good player - especially after you safejump them the first time.
I played only a few matches against decent DJs, but not having hit the lab and lacking knowledge of the matchup, it as successiful to me to just play solid with fireball and groundgame. His air normals are ridicolous too, j.LK has like what, 12 active frames? That thing seems unbeatable at times lol.
One of the fundamental things about vortex (at least to me) is that for every option there has to be an equally safe alternative option in terms of mixup. Even though 4 frame reversals are technically safe jumpable, it is nearly impossible to perform 4 frame safejumps with a high rate of precision as you could with a 5 frame dp. Sure you could set up a frame perfect command divekick for the same side, but what’s to make him afraid of it if he knows thats your one and only option? Theoretically you COULD set up a crossup safejump against him but again, getting a 1 frame safejump is extremely difficult and not worth the risk in my opinion.
Let’s face it, most vortex mix up options are not safe or easily avoidable. DF throw? Unsafe as hell and avoidable. X-up tatsu? Pretty easy to auto correct DP in most scenarios. Cross over palm? Eats spammy DPs.
The point is the vortex is about establishing unpunishable and difficult to escape pressure with potential OS back up to force your opponent into a block. Once they choose to block then you can open them up with the other options. DeeJay is not different. Unlike 90% of the rest of the cast at least we have an easy and 100% safe setup to pressure him. It is the fear of this setup that allows you to use your other options.
And if DeeJay chooses not to block…he hits you with his up kicks. Oh well. At least he doesn’t get to tack on an ultra like Ryu, Viper, Sagat…etc.
gotta get those anti airs when she jumps in! a few hints when ur fighting ibuki
1.when she gets a hard knock down on you and trys kunai mix up. On you’re wake up focus to take the kunai n dash out, Ibuki can os Neck breaker on you’re teleport even tho she didn’t do it. Practice that in training mode. comes in handy vs a good Ibuki player
2. you can safe jump her on wake up she has a 5frame start up on her Dragon kick even ex dragon kick. oh and if you safe jump her n she does an Ex dragon kick most of the time they’ll throw a kunai right after. so after you block the ex dragon kick focus absorb kunai dash and punish accordingly.
3.her double head stomp is very noticeable over all @1:55 in ur first video block high Focus to absorb kunai dash forward and punish accordingly.
4. when you use Cr.med punch in a block string say for instance you do Cr.jab-Cr.jab-Cr.strong wait like 1sec then do another Cr.strong to catch them pressing a button to get a counter hit to sweep works very well. try to incorporate that in you’re game play.
5. Get down Os sweep to catch Back dashes on wake up.
What Shin said, couldn’t have said it better myself.
Being able to tatsu > sweep a character alone screams “Vortex” IMO, even a simple empty jump late cr.tech OS can open up the opponent to the rest of your options if he was punished once, let alone a true safejump that gives you free pressure even if he blocked.
I cannot agree more, and after all vortex is all about safe options to beat opponents’ weapons couple with OS to cover every possible circumstance. When we force our way in with that, we know that they are eventually going to block, and that’s when we can risk more with the command grab.
But my point is, a good DeeJay with great knowledge of the matchup (or you know, just able to recognize a safejump), why should stop doing that?
Are we really killing characters (I mean, not easily) if all we can do is bait a reversal or simply get our D+MK safejump blocked and do what, counterhit and throw pressure?
Honestly, I’ll just call that some kind of castrated vortex (or free ground pressure), which a solid player can caintain/handle quite easily.
Safe jump dive kick can be mixed with x-up tatsu or empty jump low. There is still mix up from this setup to open him up and keep the vortex going. It’s not a castrated vortex, each character requires specific setups to get the most out of your pressure, DeeJay is no different. I don’t even understand why DeeJay is even an issue for the vortex as you can take more chances against him because he can’t parlay his upkicks into 400 damage like Ryu, Viper, Sagat, Cammy, etc, yet why is nobody complaining about vortexing those characters?
DeeJay is not difficult to vortex, you simply must be satisfied with the options that work best. Besides vortexing DeeJay shouldn’t be the goal in this match. Akuma can zone him out for extended periods.
Eww, we can’t use divekicks and we’re forced to a easily noticeable safejump setup which just bring ground pressure (which is far worse then our usual vortex pressure). Thanks but no thanks, I’ll keep considering that a weaker vortex. Also, I still find crossup tatsu to be a lot less effective against good players.
To me, the fact that we have to zone him out is exactly the consequence of the fact that our vortex options are more limited against him. This doesn’t mean we can’t win, faaar from it, just we got to do things differenty.
Btw, what’s the issue with Cammy and Sagat? Their wakeup is far easier to handle, assuming you are not dropping setups and timings - yeah, they bring the hurt on us in that case, but we’re mostly speaking of options here, and with slower wakeup and 5f reversal, they really have a hard time.
Cammy wakes up 2 frames slower after forward throw, which is more annoying than it is useful (forward throw > x2 dashes immediate j.hk will whiff, you have to time the jump-in manually). As for for the rest of their wakeup times it’s all slower by 1 frame, I don’t see how that’s much helpful really, sweep > instant command dive kick will whiff.
Waking up a frame slower after forward throw becomes useful vs characters like Dudley, you can automatically safejump his 4f EX jet upper after forward throw x2 dashes j.hk, but in most cases I see different wakeup times being more annoying than useful, because it means more manual timing and character specific setups.