Crouch tech timing & frame traps

Newbie Saikyo Dojo
#1

so i’m pretty sure i have the delayed crouch tech timing down. i hit it slightly after they would jab me and i block, so it ends up that i block their next move and if they throw me i tech their throw.

so what should i do when they start doing frame trap blockstrings (like ryu c.mp, c.mp mixed up with c.mp, throw, or maybe faster frame traps, iono like ryu/ken c.lp, c.lk i think?) as opposed to those chain blockstrings (like the c.lpx2, throw ones from ryu)? i think if you are properly timing the crouch tech, frame traps own you, right?

if i try to answer my own question it sounds like this is how the game should play lol, but i just wanted to ask if i was maybe doing the crouch tech timing wrong. like maybe to avoid the frame trap i could delay the timing even more, or something, which might make sense. i think the answer on how much to delay depends on the frame trap in question, is that right? delay your crouch tech timing for frame traps that have a shorter gap.

#2

You are only supposed crouch tech when they are inside grab range.

Once they are outside grab range you can spam a 3 frame normal like Rogs jab and you’ll be able to punish their attempt to walk forward and grab.

#3

To expand on that, you have to guess when to crouch tech and when not to. Bison can get close and cr. lk -> cr. lk OR st. fp OR throw. Crouch tech beats two of the options, but the one it DOESN’T beat leads to huge damage.

#4

Bison players to the rescue!

Crouch teching is all well and good but the more I play, the less I rely on it. It’s more reliable for me to react to the tick throw. Competent players WILL frame trap you if they notice you crouch teching too much. It doesn’t really matter if you change the timing either, because I can just change the frame trap I’m using to account for the change in crouch tech timing.

For example, let’s say I’m rushing you down with Bison, and I notice that you’ve been mashing on crouch tech. I would use my cr.short -> cr.forward frame trap, since it has a small window (basically 1 frame of leniency) for you to hit me. That is unless you PERFECTLY crouch tech, which is often not the case because I’m dictating the pace at this point, not you.

Likewise, if I notice that you’re delaying your crouch tech a bit (like you should be), I’ll use cr.short -> cr.strong which has a bigger window for me to catch your crouch tech. If you delay the crouch tech even further, or perhaps even begin trying to REACT to the tick throw, I’ll start to use cr.short -> cl.Fierce since it has a even bigger window.

I’m not saying it’s bad to crouch tech though.

You just really have to pay attention to the space between you and your opponent, as well as their attack patterns to know when to crouch tech. Tick throws and Frame Traps go hand in hand - remember that. If you’re playing against a character that relies on these two elements, like Bison or Cody, you should be careful with your crouch techs. However, if the player is being totally one-dimensional, i.e - lots of tick throws or lots of frame traps, the advantage is yours.

#5

I’m pretty sure with this question you have graduated from the newbie forum, actually no, I’m sure of it. You can move up to the big boys legit. I’m sorry this isn’t more directly related to your question, and not to say these replies aren’t all legit, but your asking something that implies a knowledge well beyond the newbie range and could generate good debate and discussion in a general forum that could be more thorough and character specific.

Also the shitty, short and best answer I can give you is welcome to legit mix-up. Your instincts and inclinations are right, now you’re onto reading and reacting to your opponent. People will put out single or double crouching shorts to mess with timing. Sometimes guessing is essential for some characters and knowing when they’re out of range for others is equally valid. You’re at a point where stuff is getting situational enough where there’s no catch all. Put it in a character specific forum and try and find out how others have dealt with it.

Oh and props on having a question too good for the newbie forum.

#6

lol i thought i accidentially posted this in the bison forum looking at the first three posts.

thanks for the answers guys. and yea, i think this is the value of using different frame traps in the block string like exceed was saying - on offense you can really screw with their crouch tech timing by using different timed frame traps. and also on the defense, it’s pretty hard to time the crouch tech correctly since it is the offender that picks the frame trap, all of which require you to crouch tech at different times

and lol @ burnyourego, i think i just posted it here so it would get more attention because it was a general question that applied to everyone, thanks for the props tho haha

#7

Block/tech isn’t the only way to defend against blockstrings. Learn how to backdash out while blocking. Or jump away. Better still if their pokes are pushing you back far enough then cross them up. Remember though that virtually every technique has a counter. You should learn to mix up your offense.

On a anal-retentive but releated note: just like not all cats are kittens, not all counter-hit traps are frame traps. A frame trap is a type of CH trap that will beat your opponent’s quickest move (that can reach you) without any manual timing. Generally, if there is a gap between two consecutive moves large enough to allow an opponent to try to interrupt with his quickest normal, but not big enough that it allows it to reach it’s active frames before yours does, then it’s a frame trap. If you’re manually slowing down your blockstrings to catch a tech attempt, or using strings with holes big enough to let their fastest normal in, then you’re fishing for a counter-hit, not frame trapping. Another type of CH trap is to perform an unsafe move, but then follow up with an invincible move that beats your opponent’s active frames. eg. Ken f.mk -> DP. The f.mk leaves Ken at -2, which is generally safe, but not safe enough to allow you to follow up with a jab, for example. However, if you follow up with DP instead and the opponent tries to jab, you will be protected by the DP’s invincibility and the opponent will get CH and that allows you to FADC into full Ultra 1. The trap works because of the DP’s invincibility, not the discrepancy between frame advantage of the previous move and it’s own startup.

Sorry about the tangent but it confuses me when people refer to certain attack sequences as being frame traps when they’re not. It makes me double check the frame data for no good reason.