Crush counter vs counter hit?


#1

Hi, so basically I looked around and couldn’t find an answer to this. What’s a counter hit? Is it the same as a crush counter? I don’t think so but can someone please explain the difference between a counter hit and a crush counter? Thanks.


#2

A crush counter is a special type of counter hit you get from certain moves that have the crush counter property. So a crush counter is always a counter-hit, but a counter-hit is not a crush counter. A crush counter is a special type of counter hit.

A crush counter will have a big spark, you’ll gain v-meter, and in will announce crush counter to you. A counter-hit can be any other move and won’t do those things. It will simply announce ‘counter-hit’ on the string. It has some other important effects, but nothing super visible.

A counter-hit is simply hitting a move during its counter-hit frames which is generally the startup of a move, but sometimes like in the case of SF5 reversals a move might be counter-hit on recovery also.


#3

But how can you hit a move if the opponents move is already reaching you? So an opponent throws a medium punch, how can you counter hit it if he pressed the punch button first?


#4

You either use a faster move with better hitboxes, or you hit it during the recovery frames.

Also, in games with a normal priority system (3S, SFV), heavy attacks will beat medium attacks on trade.


#5

Ah ok, you get a counter hit/crush counter when you hit the opponents move on his recovery frames right? Not startup or active frames is this correct?


#6

In general, you don’t. You can use an invincible attack but if someone presses a button first that isn’t slow you generally will lose if you are in range and press the button second.

Your options generally are to space yourself so even if they press a button first it will whiff and you can punish it, or to press a faster move that will hit it before they hit you. These options aren’t always possible, and in that situation your only potentially advantageous options are to block or use a move with invulnerability like a dragon punch.

Only on dragon punch like reversals. All other moves it needs to be startup or active.


#7

Technically, it’s on anywhere the move has vulnerable hurtboxes that can be hit.


#8

Ah ok, I think I kinda understand it now. Both CC’s and CH’s are the same thing in a way, both “counter” an opponents move or normal. The difference is that every character has his/her unique button/buttons that are crush counters and when that happens you get more damage as you can follow up with other hits. For example if I use Ryu and a Ken misses a DP if I hit him with a roundhouse on his way down that would be a CC since a standing roundhouse is ryu’s crush counter, but if I crouch block say a light DP and I have no time to use a roundhouse for the CC then I could use a crouching strong and that is what’s called a counter hit. Am I right or am I wrong?


#9

You get an extra two frames of advantage on hit for a counter hit.


#10

No, you only get counter-hit if you hit the opponent during the startup frames of his move or if you trade and your move has higher priority (priority in SFV: heavy > medium > light). CH/CC on recovery only works for moves with invincible properties (DPs and all the invincible reversals).
Crush counter can be scored only if you land a counter-hit with the specific CC buttons of each characters which are usually some or all the heavy buttons (including sweep), some command normals and some V-skills. e.g. all crouching or standing heavy buttons + the overhead of Necalli can score CCs, but Vega only has CC with st. HK, f+HP and sweep.


#11

Ok so a counter hit or crush counter is if I hit my opponent during the startup of his move’s frames then? Except for reversals like DP where I can get a counter hit or crush counter on his recovery then? And for anything else I can get a CH or CC by hitting him on his startup frames and if my normals have priority then?


#12

That is part of ‘it has some other important effects, but nothing super visible’. You can’t tell you have 2 more frames of advantage by just looking at it unless you can literally count frames visually.

You got the basics.

Hit in startup or active = CH/CC

Hit in recovery = Not counter-hit unless it is special like DP recovery

You have the general idea, people are bringing up peculiarities that aren’t 100% relevant like the priority system, which can more easily enable you to get counter-hits but does not define what a counter-hit is. A light can CH a fierce because it is faster in startup and a low profile medium can CH a fierce in the active frames if it dodges under the fierces hitbox. Priority system does not define CH only what gets the hit if 2 moves collide into each other on the same frame. If only 1 move hits and the other whiffs priority system is irrelevant.


#13

I said “or” not “and”. The case of trade is a specific one that happens when two moves collide because they became active at the very same moment; when that happens, if the moves have the same priority both you and your opponent get hit, if not the one with the highest priority wins. This is a specific mechanics to SFV and some other games like 3S. Trade priority doesn’t apply to air moves either.
Also you can ALWAYS score a CH/CC if you hit an opponent that is backdashing.


#14

I think SFV made explaining counter hits a whole lot harder because of all it’s exceptions.

Previous to SFV a counterhit would only occure when you interrupt your opponents startup frames with your own active frames. A counterhit would then reward you with a longer than usual hitstun on the opponent to enable previously impossible combos sometimes.

SFV added on to this by creating a “counterhit state” which they then put onto certain invincible special moves as well as backdashes and I believe (could very well be mistaken) active frames of throws instead of only the startup frames.

Crush Counter now is just a counter hit with a designated unique button for each character which, as counter hits do, give you certain advantages.
For some crush counters it’s ridiculously extended hitstun (the spin), some others launch or grant a hard knockdown.

I wouldnt even mention the button priority system because it doesnt directly connect with this topic and is way too specific of a topic for someone without a clue (no offense)