Current thoughts?

Recently i’ve been talkin with a couple different Ny players about ironman teams and his current ability to compete at high level. They surprised the shit out of me by saying that some people were actually debating if combofiend was the cheapest squad overall. I’ve always thought that ironman was weaker than cyc but it seems like i was way off. The point of this post is to ask how ironman teams are competing in your area and if those players have learned to 1 hit kill with him from anywhere on screen consistently. The guys schoolin me mentioned that defense and counter hits leading into ggpo = a problem

A couple things that i learned since i tried the team out again

Ironmans ability to cancel his airdash momentum as he attacks gives him the ability to do deep crossups with his air fk

ironguy on point

opponent crouching, sj lk airdash directly to the middle of ur opponents sprite and hold back+fk(right before the game forces ur opponent to look towards the direction u r airdashing)

because of the way that ironman floats slightly during his descent and the way the game tries to keep track of ur position during ur attack, this can be manipulated to hit ur opponent in a variety of stupid angles…

i’ve airdashed past the char and kicked them in the back of the head before the game forces me to slide thru the opponents sprite and land on original side.

You can also land regular crossups using this pretty easily.

maybe a good way to set this up is by faking the cross-up and hitting with fk before u reach the center of ur opponents sprite, make em respect something…

I doubt this 2nd set-up is useful but it might still work because of how wierd it looks

sj airdash past the ~very~ center of ur opponent sprite then lp and hold back. even though you’ve airdashed past the opponents sprite, by holding back right after u pass the center of their sprite it will force u back to the original side for a retarded floaty Lk switch side. the game forces the character thats getting crossed up to face the other direction for a split second even though u are already floating back to the original side. you’ll know u are getting it when they only look the wrong way for a really brief period of time.

i still suck with him but i figure that somone will drop some current info on people winning more with him.

I think ironguy is pretty dam good still…especially if you can do air unfly infinite to ground infinite…which i can’t do lol

anyways, i think ironguy’s s.rh is a godlike move…the fact that it has the amount of priority on it and doesn’t leave him open to’s is very good. so with unfly how safe is his s.rh, fly unfly…very – if you see it hit all you gotta do is the basic sj.fp ad/df lk lk fp infinite.

ironguy has a missle to zone you with, his c.fp+drones, fly and wait tactics are so nasty against magneto make it very difficult to get in with magneto cuz there is almost no angle magneto can come in at that will win against one of whips – so this gives him good chip patterns – btw c.rh is good at stopping magnus’ from dashing in against you

cable’s more or less try to wait for you to call your assist out and beam it…and block your shid. i think this matchup is where the crazy stuff you mentioned in your post would work well (after cable has called his assist out). because a lot of good cables will just block ironguy. so tri jumping is all good and all, but i dont rely on tri jumps to get me hits. i try to wait for mistakes like cable jumping and then coming down with his sj.rh, if he does that you just get to jump straight into the infinite. and if cable is caught jumping backwards, like with magneto, you can gb them with sj. ad/f sj.lp pause sj.up+fp

storm…i have no strategies against a good storm that will lead to winning lol

smart bombs hit her out of hailstorm and u can still block most of the time? lol

also xxx/bh aces the shit out of ironguy a lot of the time

yup storm and sent are the matches that i"m wondering about mainly

I’m a huge fan of IM’s HK. Good info on the trick…i will have to try that. Aerial HK is also good if someone is trying to mix you up, coming down from sj. I can’t even describe the hit box/priority, because at times I hit storm without my leg even touching her (IM’s ass hit her i guess). Your sprite also gets smaller.

KneeDive = underrated. It’s fast, high priority (i’ve kneedived sents drones, HSF, and even a cable grenade), crosses, and puts you in jump mode after cancelling it with a dash. I have a youtube vid of divekick combos. IM crosses over, doom on 1side, you on the other. It’s an inf setup. The only thing I will say is watch and see it’s uses (seeing how i dont see a lot of IM players using/talking about it).

Cr.HK is solid, but I never try anything slow ground level against Mags. Not worth the risk of you hitting him across the screen (limited inf setup), or him evading it and closes in on you. I’d rather play defense and counter with launch, assists, and IM’s quicker attacks.

------However…Cr.HK has it’s uses. Against assists (if you’re far away, and just cant resist to lay something on them) Cr.HK x unibeam + drones (if you have em). The unibeam and assist resets, PLUS the ground drones will still keep the assist on the screen. You can then attempt to hit him again. Also, Cr.HK is SJ.cancellable, so if you sense you’re going to get hit by something, cancel x SJ and you’re safe.

xxx/BH isn’t all that lopsided. It slows IM down but doesn’t stop him. Long startup and BH is huge and vulnerable. What team you got, and what team you trying to beat? (xxx/bh?)

Storm: IMO, a metered storm with lead is IMs worst matchup. My offense is structured around SBs, and that is negated due to HS. HS+Sent - Sent eats bombs, IM eats HS, Storm is chilling. I would say best bet is to fight her head on, AND try to make her burn meter. You hit, you kill. She hits, she can kill as well. She’s high priority, fast, with range.

But a nonmetered storm without lead, IM can hold his own. Once you’re on her, she has to deal with that fact that your 1hit can kill her, and her’s cant. Counter attack her ass, and drop in on her with highpriority air to ground games. S.HK beats all her jumpins. If she flies away, you got an airdash and aerial fierce. If you know you’re IM setups, you can INF her from 1 aerial fierce (if you don’t have unfly…it’s going to be harder, but still possible with an assist). Her only answer is a lightening attack, cause fierce destroys anything else she got up there. If you hit by lightening attack, she’s gonna have to fall, rush that shit down. SB/unibeam to slow her. Just don’t let her get meter.

thats good stuff, keep the ideas coming and maybe the players reading this will make some progress along the way.

a small variant on the fk cross-up /

Using his airdash control to make a move whiff can lead to ironman landing faster on the ground and getting a pretty good throw set-up.

a basic example would be sj lk vs crouching opponent airdash forward lk, delay the mk and hold back at the same time, then hit fk. That delay added to the direction u hold will release the opponent from blockstun at about the same time you land. this can be manipulated by both players and it’ll never be guaranteed but I can see it’s uses for when ironman slows somone down by making them respect his priority.

also when using different instant overhead set-ups people will jump alot so you can also pull off some guardbreaks when they regular jump(sj lk airdash downforward guard drops then lp, uf fp)(sj lp, airdash and wait lp,uf fp) . even tho these are possible, they are only likely when you’re right up on somomone and are able to limit their movement. I also messed with throwing them as they tried to get away from me and it’s good enough to set-up and use every now and then.

this last point that i’ve been looking at makes very little sense to me, try it out and try to explain this to me…

Some players say that all moves when blocked will do the same blockstun(light to light being same and med->med and so on)

compare ironmans different chains and the way that they pin you once he makes contact

it’s easy to compare if you just hold up after he makes contact(and creates blockstun) with his first light attack.

standing on ground set-up

lp,mp,fp, this string is a mp chained into a fp, and yet it lets ur opponent jump away before the fp hitbox has time to fully activate. mp isn’t creating enough stun to stop them from jumping in this case.

then try out his lp,!lk!,fp and you’ll immediately see that something funky is going on, when chaining like this, it’s two lights in a row and yet they can’t even get above ur fp hitbox before it hits them. do the light attacks do more stun in this case or is it faster to cancel from a light than a medium?

I’ve always thought something broken was goin on with blockstun.

tell me what u think about that boshit

edit: apparently Frx team tourney finals combofiend was just flat out beasting everyones lives away, he drops brandon,sanford and justin all in a row? I guess thats where some of that hype came from. fiend comes back with 20% ironguy+20% sentinaaalll VS sanfords thrax… 3 characters all w more than half life

thats shitty it wasn’t recorded :[

I can’t confirm that because I don’t have a dreamcast on me, although I could of sworn they have blocked frame adv data from the chart. But if anyone is willing to do that…can you check how much pushback (how far the opponent goes back) all his blocked normals do? and Smartbombs? It’d be a nice help to see what chained blocked strings are guaranteed.

If you like chains, I usually chain with ground strings, unibeam, and assists. Unibeam has no pushback on block and it’s safe from ahvb (not 100% on that, but I never got hit after a jab uni). I remember someone complaining about “bullshit blockstun” strings, when I got,,,, unibeam, jump AD/DF lk, mk, land, repeat. I got 2 reps where he was mashing psy and nothing was coming out.

One of my favorite things to do against slower characters at the start of the round is If they jumpback, guardbreak to INF. Works wonders on Sent. air lk is also high priority, fast, and the animation is nice. The hitbox is low (his toes) and the rest of his body is up high. I dunno… I think that info can be useful. If the hits…inf setup.

Hmm…it’d be nice to see threads that go deep into specific IM strats. Like the blocked strings you mentioned, mixup strings, guaranteed options at the start of the round (ex.mag beats beats mag mag cr.lp beats IM jumping lk beats mag cr.lp…etc etc with different characters), in-depth matchup analysis, in-depth IM team stats, etc etc…

But I guess everone is so concerned with combos, when all you really need is a basic knowledge of IMs attacks. You won’t have to worry inputting the 1000th combo you read, you can just make up combos/inf setups on the fly…I hope people progress with IM, if you think my info is helpful…i’ll post everything I know about him.

This is a very Good thing you’ve said, best way to start it off would be to break down Match ups with a Default Ironman view point, either with an assist, and without.

Mix up: Reason why that they can’t jump is due the Distance/Frames. Lp,mp puts them far enough that the mp blockstun isn’t enough stun to keep them pinned for the long start up on Fp to come out to for an actual lockdown.

even though lp, lk doesn’t do as much stun as lp,mp, it doesn’t push them too far away so that the f.hp can come out in time to touch them.

(following are for solo IM only)

Standing rounhouse is godlike.

Iron mans knee is pretty good to use but i would be careful using it against sent unless you have instant aaa, he can hyper sentinel force you right out of it even if you fly above his head its unescapable. Its even worse vs storm/sent or cable/sent if block it can result in death due to sentinels sprite acting as a defense wall for the other character.

a good pressure string on a magnus or something to push away is,,c.rhxxlp unibeam (unibeam incase they guard cancel)

as for that super jump lk guard break its dangerous if they have like psy or cyclops, it can make you lose a good chunk of life if not a character if you get hit. people refuse to jump against iron man at beginning except sent but IM’s dash is too slow to go past the assist if they jump straight up and block (it can also be used to gain unfly for IM =). I do that with magnus and it always works because his dash is fast enough. At the beginning of the match just be careful and try to get away so the laming can commence =D

now this is just for people who dont use IM/cable/doom to beware of the consequences of some moves without doom. IM/cable/doom can get away with alot of pressure strings and its a good team for IM but i never use it.

mixup, screw conventional im teams

rock sent/im/capcom or im/sent/capcom

i swear storm is this only team’s weakness…cable kinda but cable vs ironman is about patience both ways =)

try this combo out of a ff,, f.fwd+fp, f.smartbombs [long], unfly…if you did it right, the smart bombs will land inbetween character, allow u time to set up ironman tactics. one will fall behind, and most important, one will fall in front, so they have no time to dash to IM. i know it is simple…but why do i think it is so good?

also, im has nasty assist punishing capability with capcom. s.rh+cap is super safe considering you cannot be hit low out of this, and can super jump cancel to block =) if the opp. is lax you can get nasty assist punish crap, but the simple s.rh+cap, sj.fp does enuff

TRY IT OUT! i remember 360 tellin me he use this team tooo! 360 know the truth about this Im team, it hafta be hist best =)

that team is buff as shit and i like it vs other sent/cap teams. That team is so underated man and it has IM air combo setups that can get you safely away from getting viped by cable.

that is a combo i do on people but with mag assist heres what i do.

sj.lp,,sj.upfierce, aduf,, sj.upfierce, fly, f.lp+mag, f.forwardsfiercexxxsmart bombs (long range version). The whole point of that combo is if i interupt a character in the air and have no unfly and am low on health i combo them into em disruptor and after the smart bombs are sent i unfly right away. The smart bombs add enough block stun and cant be escaped, so when i hit the ground i start proton cannon and dhc out. its the only way i dhc now awdays unless i get some other good block stun with drones.