CvS2: Crouching Fierce denied

sagat

#1

These are anti-sagat crouching fierce pokes.

NOTE: these are only the capcom characters. I didn’t have time to experiment with the SNK side, but I’ll post them shortly. Soon, I’ll post on his Standing fierce and standing forward kick. I also plan on posting specials, and jumping attacks that beat these pokes. There are HELLA pokes that beat his crouching fierce in the capcom side, but they were SO range specific that it wouldn’t do much good in a real fight…PM me for the specific range list. Maybe, I’ll make a FAQ or guide soon.

chun-li:
s. jab --hits his punch anywhere outside of his range

Balrog
s. fierce --hits him and his punch outside of range.

Sakura:
s. jab --hits the punch anywhere outside of range

Vega
with claw
s. strong --hits him or punch.

Dahlsim
c. roundhouse–completely slides underneath his punch.

Blanka
slide --slides beneath

yun:
s. jab --hits his punch anywhere outside his range

maki:
s. jab --hits his punch anywhere outise his range

guile
c. forward --hits him below the punch from out of his range
c. roundhouse–second hit is clean from out side his range


#2

SNK side

Nakoruru : standing MK

Mai : standing HP

chun_li1


#3

Sagat: standing short


#4

good stuff,this will help me to stop my friend:D
can bison or hibiki stop it?


#5

Try standing MP against the low HP of Sagats.

chun_li1


#6

with wich charecter,bison or hibiki, or both?


#7

what do you mean aboutisde the range? it has to be outside sagat’s range? no one would throw a cr. fierce if it wasn’t going to hit…


#8

Here’s the capcom normals FULL list


#9

Rolento’s s.forward beats it at the wrapping :slight_smile:


#10

Joe’s tiger knee beat out sagats crouching fierce because of it’s start up invincibility frames. The c.fp goes right through. Here’s a pic for extra measure:


#11

Also joes’ c.fp hits sagats c.fp when sagat is just out of range.


#12

Well…

Most jabs beat out sagat’s ducking fierce from outta range. Most standing fierce attacks do too. However any attack that beats out the ducking fierce will not do as well against the standing fierce. Sagat has so many options. Geese’s standing strong and Beni’s ducking forward do a good job. Most shoryuken character’s ducking fierce beat it out too. The difficult thing is beating it up close and I don’t think there are any attacks that will hit it clean if done at the same time excluding quick attacks.


#13

Well…

He what’s up Gon. Yea you are right about it being harder to beat it out close. The pic I posted above (joed.jpg) was done right in Sagats face and beat him out cleanly. I think most shoryuken characters beat it out up close but I’m not sure. Joe’s tiger knee beats out alot of things though.


#14

The problem with using “shoryuken” moves is the risk. You can psychic D.P. 99% of pokes, but relying on psychic DP is NOT reliable because you’re so open if you miss. That’s why I"m sticking to safe pokes as a way to beat sagat’s pokes.


#15

Then you are missing the point. You can’t simply beat Sagat’s fierce by knowing these ranges. You have to know that he will stick it out. If you stick out anything to hit the wrapping or the fingers and he doesn’t do it, you just left yourself open like triple cock stuffed whore. I can tell you that it’s already better to punish a whiff on the retraction. You have far more time and options for damage. In both cases, if Sagat never sticks out his fierce without being in touching range then these counters are useless(except for the completely clean ones…as long as you don’t whiff them). You have to trick the sagat player into hitting those fierces at ranges where he wouldn’t make contact. Sure, these things help against scrubs but…you’re on the wrong track as far as truly denying the cr. fierce. You can’t make a good player whiff cr.fierces all day like that. That’s just not how things work. The info is great and compiled well but it’s merely “slight” help in handling a good sagat player who utilizes cr. fierce well.

Apoc.


#16

One cool thing I like to do is dash back and poke back immediately. Guiles s. roundhouse, Vegas c. strong, Naks slide, Cammys drill, Rugals c. fierce, and Terrys j. burning knuckle are fairly quick and well ranged, so they work very well after dashing back from Sagat pokes. However, it sometimes depends on the speed of your backdash
and when sagat did c. fierce. Either way, you’ll have the right to hit back before they do.

If you can roll cancel repeatedly well, roll canceling a fireball abusively in sagats face is the shit. It’s safer than DP and it provokes the enemy to want roll, throw you, or try to think which adds more of a pressure game at the same time.

Other than that, low parrying and Jding are pretty safe.

A lot of c. fierces work well against it. Particulary those that have similar animation to Guiles, Ryus, Ioris, Geeses. If you anticipate at the wrong time you can always go for some high priority shit, because Sagat players love to punish missed attacks. “Predicitable!”

Oh yeah, if you’re really close, can’t you poke back after blocking the 1st c. fierce? It appears to have some odd start up and recovery.


#17

Well when your in that close tiger kneeing how can you miss that much, either they block, you hit them or you get hit (you getting hit if you try anything other than light versions of a dp or tiger knee and sagat recovers before you). I usually do a short tiger knee anyways to punish stuff like sagats c.fp. Also with shoryuken characters when I punish stuff in that close I just use the jab versions. You are taking a much greater risk using anything stronger. It’s 50/50 then. A 50/50 with consequences pointing more in your way if you miss your dp. Jab and short versions (srk’s/tiger knee) you recover faster and can defend yourself so I see that as reliable. If you do any other version than there is a chance of getting punished more than a short tiger knee.

I wasn’t looking at the fact that it’s a psychic dp, I was looking more at the fact that when sagat throws out a c.fp you can tiger knee and go right through utilizing the tiger knees invincibility frames. With that being said if you are in that close alot of sagat players will try to throw out c.fp to bust you up and push you backwards away from them, noone is gonna sit back out of c.fp’s effective range and whiff c.fp’s it’s pointless. You can recover pretty fast from a short tiger knee and if they try another c.fp trying to get you on your recovery you can do another tiger knee. Being in close and joe goes through the c.fp like in the pic I showed you won’t miss you have the advantage.


#18

When you are up close… at least in Jab range… you can stop his cr FP pretty ezily cuz you gotta realize… cr FP = 7 frames… jab w/ most chars = 3 frames. But again the key is being at jab range. Sagat’s cr FP is almost unbeatable when it is outside of cr MP range but inside of fingertips. At this range you gotta do stuff like cr MK to go under and stuff it as it comes out… cuz alot of cr MK are about 4 frames. Thats why against dumb Sagats w/ Shotos… you can bait out stuff… but doing 3 cr LK to push him into a range he thinks is perfect for the cr FP, then pause a sec to let him think he has the initiative… and then stick out a cr MK, which comes out as a counterhit… and u can combo into a super. But this is all mindgames because he might very well stick out a cr FWD too… and stuff yours… So you never really know :wink:


#19

You know that Sagat is not all about c. fierce. Why do ppl make it seem like he is. I think its kinda lame.


#20

i don’t think anyone meant it in that way. more like what can be done to beat it.