Lemme explain frames real quick. Every move in the game gets either positve, negative, or no frames on contact. Jabs/Shorts have many positive frames, allowing you to either link them or tick throw. Fierces/RH’s have negattive frames (most of the time) which is why you often can’t link them. If I do a jab, and I am +6 frames and someone jd’s it, jabs give short blockstun, in addition to the JD reduction, they may be able to retalliate. If I try to sweep someone and they JD it, they will react slower because of the increased block stun with a hard move. It only SEEMS like you get frames, you don’t.
I’m not trying to be a dick here, but I thought my Sagat example was pretty clear. If normal blocked, I can’t hit him. If JD’ed I can. Therefore, JD HAS to give me extra frames of advantage in that example. It’s simple logic.
Ok, because you don’t seem to understand the Sagat d.MK example I’ll use a better one.
Rugal’s close s.MK leaves him at nuetral frame advantage. I’m saying so because I remember Buktooth saying it in his tips thread. Buk’s a pretty smart guy when it comes to this stuff, so I will take it as fact.
If normal blocked, you can’t hit Rugal.
HOWEVER! If you JD the s.MK, you -can- hit Rugal before he recovers. This means Rugal is at a frame disadvantage after doing his s.MK. He MUST be. So if Rugal is at a disadvantage, that must mean that his opponent instead has the advantage.
The ONLY reason you now have the advantage is BECAUSE of JD. In this example, the JD gives you frame advantage. There’s no “seeming” like I get frames, I DO. Go try it out for yourself.
WE NOT TO THINK ALWAYS CRAZILY!!!
If some move puts you, as the defender, at -10. Then you have ‘reduced block stun’, this means your block stun is… reduced. So you’d be at -5 or so!
In this case you don’t have “frame advantage”
But if you JD some move that would normally leave you at -1. Then you have ‘reduced block stun’, which in this case means thta your block stun is reduced. So you’d be at +3 or so!
In this case you have “frame advantage”
After that you can RC reversal wakeup to try and get out of Rock’s corner trap.
Dude Drag, ask ANYONE who knows ANYTHING about cvs2 and they will tell you that JD doesn’t give you FRAME ADVANTAGE, it reduces the frames that you can’t attack.
Then answer me this. If Rugal is at frame disadvantage after his attack, his opponent has advantage instead… Right? Or wrong?
frame advantage isn’t something given to a move or anything, it’s just a way to describe who can attack first after someone blocks, or gets hit by an attack.
All this talk about frame advantage and block stun and plus minus whatever is getting out of hand. All you need to say is that JDing certain moves allows you to punish them while simply blocking doesn’t. Whether this constitutes “frame advantage” or “reduced block stun” or whatever technical term doesn’t really matter.
Im just saying that when you JD your block stun time is lowered, simple as that.
can you guys put some examples in? so i can C what youre saying? cuz i think jd’ing is wierd… and people tell me that ime not using it right…
here is what you must understand…
CvS2 is a game of poking reguardless of what other people may say…and as stupid as it sounds, a rc is just a poke as far as i see it
what jd’ing some of these ‘pokes’ does is leave your opponent open whereas otherwise they wouldn’t be open.
all this frame bullshit is kind of funny, we shouldn’t really even be focusing on that crap, the japanese are going to figure that kinda stuff out, u just need to know bad moves to JD, such as cammy’s s.fp. one thing i will say about frames though, is that JD DOES allow you to perform a lv3 right after you JD, so when you are raged, anything you jd just about you can punish, no matter sagat c.fp, cammy’s s.fp, etc…
jd’ing in the air is SOMETIMES good and sometimes bad. whoever says it is BEST to JD in the air is crazy. i would say jd’ing in the air is good for two reasons, air to air attacks and baiting out a super. jd’ing an anti-air i guess is good since u dun get hit, but i mean, ur juss gun bounce back up, so ur at it again, lol.
i hope you left w/something positive out of this
btw…don’t focus just on jd’ing, k-groove is bout rushing their ass down. jd to get urself in a position to rush them down aka knockdown (then something after the knockdown to prevent safe fall)
Ive played k groove for awhile, it doesnt give you frame advantage it gives you shorter block stun thats it. The people can actually escape from a throw after a jd if they knew how. Its not like a parry you dont get any frame advantages for it.
Its dependent on what super you have if you want to level 3 super them right after you JD.
I could be wrong, but if you want to do that it has to be something with with 0 frame start up. Like Zangief’s SPD (Not a super), Hibiki’s Blackout super, etc. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
Actually it depends on if you have frame advantage after your JD, and if your super/special connects quickly enough. (If the startup on your attack is less than the advantage that you have, and you are in range for the attack to connect).
I can see what both parties are saying after thinking about it. My question was what the entire thread debated about.
JD shortens your block stun as well as prevents push back. In some cases, this would allow you to punish some moves. In others, it wouldn’t do anything.
EX: On block, a move leaves you at -5 frames at a disadvantage. If you JD, you shorten it to -2. Technically, you’re still at a frame disadvantage, but you ARE shortening your block stun.
EX: On block, a move leaves you at 0 frames disadvantage. If you JD you cut you’re block stun and end up at +3 frames of advantage. NOW you’re at frame advantage.
Did I get that right? I hope playing 3D and reading frame data on a regular basis paid off :lol:
If you JD something and it LOOKS like you can attack or super, try it. If it’s an attack it’s no big deal and they just block (or dp if they’re psychic). If it’s a super, well now you know not to try to punish that move with a super.
That’s exactly what I’m trying to say Icege. JD can in some situations give you frame advantage, or make your advantage better. In others it won’t though. If anything, you are definitely gaining some extra time if your have shorter blockstun than normal.
I’m no frame master, but it makes sense to me.
Do you know how long JDstun is? is it 3 frames? Is it ALWAYS the same length of time no matter what attack you JD? I think I remember reading that it was some time ago, but I forget.
I’m wondering because if you JD a move that has very short blockstun normally(just as short as JDstun) you won’t come out of blockstun any quicker. In this case you wouldn’t have shortened blockstun from JDing. That’s if JDstun is always the same.
What I’m trying to say is, the shortened blockstun is not a feature or effect added to a each Just Defend. It is a by-product of Just Defend always having the same short blockstun time, no matter what the blockstun on the move normally is (without JD). If the move has long blockstun normally, it now has short blockstun with JD. If the move has very short blockstun normally (same as a JD), it still has short same blockstun with JD (but not any shorter).
Shit, i’m confusing myself now. Anyway, does anyone know the amount of time JD takes? And the amount of blockstun on say, a jab?
Sorry, but JD really does give you no frames what so ever. As long as that point is across I don’t care about what else you say.
JDing makes any attack u JD have 3 frames of stun. Ryus C.lp has a +4 advantage if blocked JDing a jab would shorten the blockstun enough to make it super easy to tick throw. Really all u need to know to start off is fierces usaully let u punish them and jabs will get you thrown a lot. The only confusing attacks to JD are mediums but usaully leave the attacker safe. If u do jd a jab and have a DP you can actually punish the incoming throw if u buffer the JD into the DP. You can actaully do crazy stuff if you buffer fast moves or ones with invunrability with a JD. Irember seeing a vid INO JDing the beginig of Saks CC with kyo then DPing her out of it. Ive been working on A-Sak counters in K groove and people with good options after a JD really help even up the match. Shes still the biggest bitch ever though. THe best move after a JDing is goukis instant hell murder or zangeifs throws. Does any one know if saks standing kick beats geifs fierce punches? If they dont i was thinking he might be a good counter for her in K since a lot of her cheese gets stop by his JD throw.
JDing makes any attack u JD have 3 frames of stun. Ryus C.lp has a +4 advantage if blocked JDing a jab would shorten the blockstun enough to make it super easy to tick throw. Really all u need to know to start off is fierces usaully let u punish them and jabs will get you thrown a lot. The only confusing attacks to JD are mediums but usaully leave the attacker safe. If u do jd a jab and have a DP you can actually punish the incoming throw if u buffer the JD into the DP. You can actaully do crazy stuff if you buffer fast moves or ones with invunrability with a JD. Irember seeing a vid INO JDing the beginig of Saks CC with kyo then DPing her out of it. Ive been working on A-Sak counters in K groove and people with good options after a JD really help even up the match. Shes still the biggest bitch ever though. THe best move after a JDing is goukis instant hell murder or zangeifs throws. Does any one know if saks standing kick beats geifs fierce punches? If they dont i was thinking he might be a good counter for her in K since a lot of her cheese(except the all powefull fireball) gets stopped by his JD throw and he has like 3500 mre life points in a avg k match than sak.
Also, to further prove that JD reduces block stun, when you try to parry a move like DI or Kims rush super, do you notice that you have to parry the whole thing? Thats because when you parry, you dont go into block stun so the game thinks it should continue the attacks. When you JD either of the moves, the game see that you blocked the attack, therefore the attacks will not continue.
Are you sure? I tried parrying the first hit of Iori’s rush super, and I didn’t have to parry the rest :rolleyes:
By the way do you even know what frame advantage is. Frame advantage means YOU GET TO ACT BEFORE YOUR OPPONENT RECOVERS.
I’ll use capital letters since it must be hard to read these tiny fonts.
IF YOU JD SOME MOVES YOU GET TO ACT BEFORE YOUR OPPONENT RECOVERS.
ACTING BEFORE YOUR OPPONENT RECOVERS MEANS YOU HAVE FRAME ADVANTAGE.
Anyway this is one of those things you’ll either see intuitively, or else you won’t (because you’re dumb). So I guess there’s no point wasting time talking about it more