CvS2: Sagat Training Guide

sagat

#1

The old and obsolete thread…


#2

Awesome thread – thanks for bringing it back!


#3

Thanks for reposting the thread. It was a great tutorial :slight_smile:


#4

So great that it should be bumped…


#5

wtf do you open that attachment with? cuz its not working with internet explorer.


#6

You need WinZip to unzip the html file inside :slight_smile:


#7

This thing has so many errors. It’s really out of date and I’m really a scrub who has no idea how to use Sagat…

Glaring mistakes that need to be corrected right away:
-Sagat’s best b&b combo is NOT d.LK, d.LK, d.MK xx low tiger cannon. That combo is a one frame link (ie. unreliable in real gameplay when you’re under pressure). d.LK, d.LK xx level 2 super is really all you need.

-Sagat is really NOT all about combos. Against small characters, he needs to play more for the guard break. People who use Sagat’s RANGE to their maximum potentitial are the real Sagat experts. far j.HK, s.LK (one hit), d.HP is better than trying to always go for a d.LK, d.LK xx tiger knee combo any day of the week. Again, I apologize for writing that scrubby garbage.

-Guard break, d.HP xx super —> “owww” —> The true Sagat b&b combo

-close s.MP and d.MK hit at the SAME speed. I wrote I was “positive” the close s.MP is faster. I don’t know what I was thinking…

The only good thing you’ll get of the thread is “use s.LK” and the d.LK, tiger uppercut link. I’ll make a new and better thread soon… read and laugh at my poor quality one while you guys still can. :lol:


#8

==========
Space Control

Go to training mode and press s.LK a bunch of times. Note the maximum range at which it hits. This is Sagat’s personal space. It’s safe to assume that unless you’re knocked down, your opponent is NEVER going to be able to take this space away from you.

Now press far s.HP and d.HP a few times too. Note the maximum range on those. Anytime you want, whenever the opponent invades that space, you can assert control over that area, within 7 frames or less.

By keeping total domination over the above two spaces, you’re assuring 1.) the opponent will always be at a range where you can easily react to his jump-ins and 2.) catching you off guard by rolling-in is not an option.

Being able to keep the opponent out of the key close range space, then easily reacting to whatever other path they might try to get in close to fight you, is one of Sagat’s best strengths.

The opponent’s main option should be to trying to bait you into doing something impatient and foolish. Either that, or try to hit you when you try to control your far s.HP range. NEVER GIVE YOUR OPPONENT ANY OTHER OPENINGS. Always wait for him to make the first mistake first, and be ready to react to it, whether with d.HP xx combo or something simple like a one hit far s.MK even. No random rolling, no jumping in without a setup first, no just walking up and expecting the other guy to let you short, short xx super him.

Fight for you screen postion, control your space, and ALWAYS punish the other guy hard whenever he screws up.

This is all old school SF knowledge actually. But if you can master basics like this, applying it to CvS2 will take you a long way. I recommend practicing against the computer actually. But use EX groove, with no options other than delayed getup maybe. No super, no dash, no nothing. You’ll learn all your normals, punishing combos, and what Sagat can and can’t do inside and out quick this way.


#9

That sounds really, really useful – especially for players like me who don’t have anyone to regularly play against. You can practice RCs and 1 frame links in training mode twelve hours a day, but it’s footsies/zoning/etc. like this that’s what it’s really all about.

– tru3tn01
"down for the cause"


#10

Prerequisite skills

Before playing against any opponent, first you have to have basic comboing and execution skills. Once you’re at a point where you can consistently and accurately perform whatever move or combo you want, whenever you want, then you’re ready. What can I say that won’t sound clichd? Practice, practice, practice.

======================
Joystick and Left Hand Training

There are two main joystick positions from which Sagat does his moves:
-standing neutral
-holding down-back for low guard

Sagat has three critical joystick motions you’ll need to master:
-QCF
-DP motion
-QCB, QCB motion

You need to train your muscle memory so you can perform each of these motions separately and distinctly every time. Be careful, as although on paper a fireball and DP are obviously different, in the middle of match it can be easy to confuse one with the other. One of the biggest reasons why a lot of Sagat players are no good is because they can’t do the combos properly. When they want a DP motion, they spaz on the stick and accidentally get a fireball instead. Either that or they can’t do the combos period.


Practice these in training mode until you can do them 100% consistently, on both sides, with your eyes closed:

-QCF motion from a standing neutral position
-DP motion from a standing neutral position
-QCF motion from holding down-back
-DP motion from holding down-back

-QCB, QCB motion from standing neutral positing
-QCB, QCB motion from holding DOWN

-d.LK, single QCB motion


Now for the hard stuff…

-standing neutral, TAP down-back, DP motion
Also known as a ducking DP. Make sure you never accidentally get a fireball when you do this. Keep practicing. Nobody can master this on their first try.


Combos:

-d.MK xx dp+HP from a holding down-back position
-d.MK xx dp+HP from a standing neutral position

-d.LK xx dp+LK from a holding down-back position
-d.LK xx dp+LK from a standing neutral position

-d.LK xx qcb, qcb+K


Your eventual goal for practicing these exercises is to be able to punish rolls with a painful combo on reaction, doing deep Tiger Uppercuts whenever somebody jumps in on you, and being able to do d.LK, d.LK xx tiger crush bread and butter combo whenever you want.

===================================
Button Pressing, Linking, and Right Hand Training

Just practice pressing buttons until you can consistently combo the following moves:

-s.LP, s.LP (4 frame link)
-d.LK, s.LP (3 frame link)
-d.LK, d.LK (2 frame link)

These are the most basic and must know links with Sagat. More advance stuff later…


Two-in-one timing:

Be able to press any one button right after any other quickly and without your fingers getting mixed up.


Now put all the stuff you practiced with your left hand, together with the timing skills you learned with your right.

Do some combos:

-s.LP, s.LP xx dp+LK
-s.LP, s.LP, wait, tiger uppercut
-s.LP, s.LP, neutral, qcb, qcb+MK

-d.LK, s.LP xx dp+LK
-d.LK, s.LP, wait, tiger uppercut
-d.LK, s.LP, neutral, qcb, qcb+MK

-d.LK, d.LK xx dp+LK
-d.LK, d.LK, wait, tiger uppercut
-d.LK, d.LK xx qcb, qcb+MK

Can you do everything I wrote here without ever messing up yet? Damn, your Sagat is a beast already. :lol:


Some tips:

-Negative edge is your enemy. Really practice those joystick motions so you do them ACCURATELY from all positions and make sure you only briefly TAP whenever you need to press a button.

-Use your index and/or middle finger to press everything. No cheating and linking d.LK’s with your thumb. You won’t be able to react in time, with two-in-on timing, to press buttons when you need to cancel into super or special if you hit the LK with your thumb.

-Don’t accidentally kara-cancel standing fierce when you want to do deep, HP Tiger Uppercut. Your anti-air no longer has invincible startup then. Either hold down HP, so you only get one input, or make sure you never hit a button until you’re positive your joystick is at down-forward.

-You can cheat and press f+LP on the two-in-one part when you want a s.LP/d.LK, s.LP xx DP motion combo. I recommend it actually. It’s when you fight small characters, and you can’t do s.LP combos anymore, that sucks.


#11

K-groove

I don’t play K-Sagat, but seeing as how I want to play K-Rock and Kyo, I need a third team member. I sure as hell am not about to use Hibiki (and get countered by Bison scrubs all over the place :lol: ). So therefore I’m learning K-Sagat more extensively now. Anybody have any tips, feel free to post up. I’ll share what I have so far.


This may be old, but I figured out one of Ino Inoue’s Sagat tricks…

K-Sagat doing running c.LKs on Chun, Chun jumps over Sagat with cross-up j.LK, Sagat turns around and instantly nails Chun with a deep level 3 high tiger super

The trick for doing the deep cross-up super is to pretend you’re doing Iori’s Maiden Masher super. Do qcf, roll stick to db+P. Just like Iori’s super, it’s better to never finish the full hcb. Stop at down-back.

Again…

-d, df, f, df, d, db+P (try to press the punch as late as possible)


vs. Chun-li
Especially when in a roll cancel groove, Chun is one of Sagat biggest threats. With K-Sagat, learn to JD all six hits of her d, u+HK move ASAP. You get a free guaranteed combo of close s.HP xx dp+HP everytime. I recommend you double-tap your HP input, as attacking right out of JD stun can feel weird sometimes.


#12

Thanks to kcjx for updating all this, definitely helping out my scrubby game :slight_smile:

On an unrelated note, why does Bison counter Hibiki?

Also, who are Sagat’s hardest match-ups, and why? Along with Chun-li.


#13

Hey Kcxj…

c.lk, c.lk…that is a 2 frame link correct?

If so…can you help me out with the timing?

Like i know that it goes 1…2

Will double tapping help me out? Like…my friend was telling me that the Japenese feel that double tapping really doesn’t insure yur 2nd hit…however they say that it is just for show. Will this help me solve my 2 frame link problems…or is it REALLY just for show?

But i’m really getting angry not linking the 2…and getting punished by letting my lv 3. just fly away from my hands…

Another thing…Can you teach me how to use Tiger Crush’s in the right way!?

Another thing…srry to sound newb…but can you help me explain “3 frame links” I get the general idea…like it links in a matter of 3 frames…but…can you explain in MORE detail for me?


#14

Sup Mickey. The numbers I’ve written in this thread are all correct as far as I know. Need some tips?

Ever since I learned how to play Sagat for real (I had my friends teach me), I haven’t had to rely on double-tap for anything. Trying to double-tap c.LK, c.LK combos with Sagat actually makes the combo HARDER. s.LP combos have such lenient link windows that you don’t even need to double-tap. So yeah, unless you’re going for 1.) a throw or 2.) a reversal super, double-tapping with Sagat = pointless. If you love double-tapping as much as I do however, play Kyo or Chun instead… :lol:

Outside of s.LP, s.LP xx combo; d.LK, s.LP xx combo; or d.LK, d.LK xx combo, the correct way to use Tiger Crush is exclusively as a positioning tool. I can’t tell you enough how important positioning with any groove Sagat is. Ever watch Daigo play his top-tier C-Sagat? Not one step backwards… ever. You probably know all these already, but in case anybody else needs some basic strategy…

After a knockdown, Tiger Crush is a quick way to move forward.

In a close footsies game, when both characters are just walking back and forth, Tiger Crush moves you forward quickly and unexpectedly. The opponent’s first reaction is to always block right away.

When you have 2p side, punch throw, late Tiger Crush takes advantage of the 2p glitch.

After throwing a Tiger Shot, Tiger Crush will again move you closer for better positioning AND take the opponent out of the air if he jumps at you.

Just don’t even depend of this move as a roll cancel or a direct counter to something. Sagat has much better options than that. So yeah, to summarize, Tiger Crush is useful for combos first and for-most, positioning after that.


#15

Awesome thankx man


#16

Dam…before i read this my sagat was the worst you would ever see but now hes handing peoples ass’s to them left and right…
Its just to beautiful man…:frowning:

Well anyway…thanks for all the info you gave out kcxj :smiley: :smiley:


#17

hah ive been reading trough this and stuff… really awsome shit… i actually still get this vision of a finals i was playing vs P-someone/Yamazaki/Ryu… And I had K-Sagat… damn that sucked… i couldnt jump in since i would get yamazaki super or Ryu’s shinshoryuken… I stayed on the ground, Zoning and trying to gaurd crush all day… damn matches went to the last seconds… that is something needed when not to want to make mistakes… dont do anything that might kill you… i mean… Dont jump when you know you might be supered and killed… Build up patience, coz it aint bout jumping in all day… Honda will punish you :stuck_out_tongue:

kcxj: i keep respecting you more by the day man… You’re like Buktooth and Gunter when he still was here nothing but help, and youre good at explaining it as well… Ive known all the Sagat basics and know the combos and stuff… but still… reading this just… enlightened me in some sort of way… Dunno… thats just you =) And fuck everyone whos saying Im kissing up, wtf am I kissing up for? Like they’re gonna show me a whole new combo and dub it ‘The DooM Combo’ or something -- Im just letting out my opinion, seeing as they dont get anything in return… I would like to show my gratitude… And that’s not ball-riding… --

Icege: How Bison counters her? Not sure, but I think his c.fp counters alot? And I think Bison is just like Blanka vs Hibiki… after a slash, hit or not, you can still super and hit here… Ive done it… over and over… that sucks being a Hibiki

And when you dont have a lvl3 to punish a crossup, just do hcb, as you will pas through f,d,df which means dp-time :slight_smile:

kcxj: I never got to doubletapping… Ive actually learned it through hour sof training, and not trying to brag but I do can get out 8/10 times d.lp, d.lp, d.mp with Chun… :stuck_out_tongue: I do know how to double tap use your index anf then drum over it with your thumb again right? but I didnt link shit with it… Could you explain how? plzzz pouts :stuck_out_tongue:

Tiger crush is awsome… Its like how Roll-Sagats get in after a throw, they roll once or twice or something… Tiger Crush is just better imo :0

note to myself btw: actually learn how to read frame data and dont just look at it with a helpfile… could you tell me perhaps? or wait, maybe justdefend.com has it… right?

ah well its late… sorry for going off-topic btw… but dunno… just couldnt let the questions get out of my head


#18

Yea… I forgot all about the fact that even if she hits him with a slash, he gets a free Scissor Kick into A-Groove. Doh!

But yea… kcjx has been a big help. Especially to my Sagat and Cammy game. I need to start learning Blanka to round out my K-Groove team since he’s replaced Chun-li.


#19

vs. Blanka

There’s no reason Blanka should ever get a successful jump-in on Sagat. Against the expert level player using Blanka, maybe. But against scrub, jumping Blanka, you’re seriously doing something wrong if you let him ever jump on you. It’s definately not easy at first though. Here’s what I do to get good…

Training mode --> record dummy doing walk forward, jump in HK/MK --> play --> practice dping Blanka on reaction

When I say dp on reaction, I mean literally do not start the dp motion until you visably SEE Blanka leave the ground. Anticipating all day or just reading the what you recorded defeats the whole purpose of this excercise. A lot of people’s first reaction when they see Blanka unexpectly jump at them is to block. In a real match, this is bad. We want to make it so your first reaction to is stop whatever you’re doing and dp that randomness.

First off, you never want to let Blanka the range where he can jump on you ambigously or at a difficult to anti-air angle. So press lots of s.LK’s with Sagat. If Blanka walks into range, press max range far s.MK too. When whiffing s.LK’s you always recover in time to dp. Now when Blanka jumps, stop everything you’re doing (pressing far s.LK, attempting a d.HP, etc…) and reaction dp+HP.

Practice at least 10-20 minutes every day. Soon you’ll having nothing to fear ever again from jump happy, scrub Blankas. Vega, Mai, and all those other easy, dumb, random jump-in to get close characters too. :slight_smile:


#20

k-groove Saget is just like ne other groove cept you JD and that of course makes him alot better not to mention the rage damage