DaemoN's (Scrub)Ken Journal

ken

#1

Ok well I’ve been playing around with this for a while in training mode and my thumb is really sore but I’ve come to some really nice(In My Opinion) offensive mixups with ken vs shoto.

ok 1st, instead of doing low short,short super.There is Low jab jab short , super
first do the input for two low jabs and if they hit continue with low short and super.If the two low jabs are blocked, DO NOT continue the low short.The cool thing about 2 low jabs being blocked is that it gives you perfect space for a hit-confirmable standing strong.

2nd,I cant really get this work but another person said something like if you buffer a super from a meaty UOH while your in the air the super will hit if the UOH hits.With kens meaty UOH blocked you can immediatly follow up with his kara-grab or if it hits you super or shoryuken if you don’t have the meter.

3rd,low short standing jab shoryuken, i’ve started using this and it works alot more than I expected.What else is cool about this is if the standing jab whiffs you can follow up with 1)low strong 2)standing strong 3)walk up grab.

thats it for now, plz tell me what you think/your input.


#2

well, for one, this is theory fighting to the max. You do not know how your opponent will respond to your mixups.

Your first mixups starts with 2 jabs which is dangerously easy to parry, people will just have to tap any way and tadaa, free hits. Now lets assume they didn’t parry it because they didn’t figure you were gonna do something that stupid, lets assume they blocked, you entered jab twice and you’re at perfect s.MP range which if it hits can be converted to super. Now the question is: how do you intend to land that s.MP?

There’s 2 cases: midscreen and in corner, in midscreen any decent opponent will be walking backwards, right out of your offense, this means you will lose your perfect s.MP range which narrows down your usefull normals to your kicks. If either of these kicks whiff, or gets parried you WILL get punished. So preferably you would want to keep that s.MP range and you will be forced to either give up on the thing all together or give chase, which means you’ll lose your own defense in the process.

In corner you’re off a little better since he can’t walk out of range, however as you stopped after the double c.LP there’s still room for the c.LK, which can be launched by either character, and that’s 3 frames from the c.LK vs 6 frames from the s.MP, is the most general case you won’t be using s.MP. Even if he decides not to interrupt your chain, the s.MP will be hitting a block, since there’s no fear for throws or overheads, because you placed yourself in the precise range that neither of them will convert into super.

You cannot buffer UOH iirc, I’ve not been able to do it myself, I’m not really the buffering kind though. There is a meaty UOH timing that will allow you to shoryuken and karashoryuken. After SA3, do 2 dashes, c.MP against another shoto, wait a bit then do UOH, that should be the timing. If any UOH gets blocked the recovery on the UOH is indeed large enough to allow a throw follow up, This also means it can be throw punished or punished with a normal such as c.MK. Also note that Ken has no usefull karathrow.

On the 3rd, the c.LK,s.LP can actually be buffered, if the opponent was crouchguarding the shoryuken wont come out because it can’t cancel from the s.LP, so if s.LP connects its pretty much guaranteed hit. Now if the s.LP whiffs, there’s 2 options that break your opponent’s guard, those are (no, not the MPs) throw and evade throwtech into punish. The evade throw tech depends on how they tech, if they tech without option select you can backdash c.MK XX SA3, if they do option select you can parry down and punish or walk out of c.LP range and whiff punish.


#3

I understand what you said about the two low jabs being easy parry(besides parrying on wake-up being stupid too).In order to prevent this, I would have to pressure him with grabs/bait out shoryu’s so he has a reason to block/throw tech(then again this is 3rd strike so he will probably parry anyways).

“There’s 2 cases: midscreen and in corner, in midscreen any decent opponent will be walking backwards, right out of your offense” this I find very untrue especially in ken mirrors, when you have a crouching ken within low forward distance the standing ken will crouch block/parry as well or throw out a counter-poke otherwise he’ll eat low forward into super.

THEORY FIGHTER
The corner situation, since your talking about decent opponents I’m going to assume this, s.MP distance between two kens.The ken in the corner will stand up,maybe walk forward for a second then block/parry low immediatly to bait out the offensive ken’s low forward.Why? any decent ken can reversal low forward with SA3, the corner ken doesn’t have much options against another “decent” ken besides this,ex-tatsu out of corner,turtle against ken’s offense and get rocked.If all this theory works out as planned, the s.MP should hit him if hes jumping out of corner/baiting out low forward.
THEORY FIGHTER END

The reason I said use his kara-grab if the UOH is blocked is cause you have to kara-grab to reach if you don’t want to walk up grab, I don’t know if it helps at all.

.“Now if the s.LP whiffs, there’s 2 options that break your opponent’s guard, those are (no, not the MPs) throw and evade throwtech into punish.” wouldn’t s.MP/cr.MP have the same effect as an evade(in this case counter) throw-tech punish?

“evade throw tech depends on how they tech” wait, so you would have to know how your opponent responds?I don’t quite understand it.

good points all around,what area do you play in?I hate talking about street fighter strategies without some competition to test it on first.


#4

why not c.short, c.jab,c.short instead? Start it off by hitting low. I have been getting away from 3 hits confirm into super because it doesn’t work on all characters.

As for the s.strong, it will probably wiff more often than hit because your opponents will be crouch blocking your low hits.


#5

No, a decent player can and will defend succesfully in such a situation, because like I said, he hasn’t got to fear anything when you put yourself out of your useful ranges. He will wait for anything that will allow him to jump out or punish you. Opponents are never forced to parry, nor is Ken’s offense THAT good.

Like I said, you will barely move with kara on the overhead grab, it’s not usefull at all.

Yes, you have to know how your opponent responds, you can attempt to stuff him, but remember it’s his 3 frames vs your 5, so he’s likely to win.


#6

What’s evade throw and option select?


#7

There are some parameters required for a throw to work, namely, the opponent has to be on the ground(or in case of some throws in the air) and he has to be in range. If you jump you are no longer on the ground and if you backdash you usually end up out of range, evading the throw attempt. If you see nacchan vs hitotsume during KSK ranking battle you’ll see it happen clearly: at the end of the third round nacchan dashes in for meaty/throw and then immediatly backdashes, you see hitotsume’s throw whiff and nacchan finishes off with c.MK X EX-Hado.

Option select: if you do c.LP+LK you will tech throws, but you won’t attempt a throw, that’s the idea in short. That will save you the recovery time on a throw whiff. It also launches a c.LP that stuffs a lot of your opponent’s attacks.

The technical story behind it is that when you push a bunch of buttons at the same time, the game has to decide which one it will execute, I mean otherwise people would be launching LP,MP,HP,LK,MK,HK,throw,UOH,Taunt at the same time which would for one make the animation look like real garbage:P So instead it launches then in a certain order: M over L, H over M, P over K, special over normal, super over special and in case it applies dps over fireballs with f,qcf motions(hence you see dps coming out at times you don’t want them). Throws, throw tech, UOH and Taunt are specials.


#8

You didn’t have to be that throrough, but thanks. I thought ‘‘throw evade’’ was something technical…

I actually use “option select”… I thought it was an Xbox Live trick.

I suppose pressing forward for a split second before going for the inteded throw, is also considered option select. I hate when that happens to me when the other player is getting up.


#9

your never always going to be able to do one move because eventually moves get parried if your obvious or throws get teched.

vs another shoto, espeically ken, staying in low fwd range and reversaling it on block shuts down that zone for them. More and more people are able to do this but not all players yet.

theres only a few solid strats that have with stood the test of time. Counter poke, throw, double throw, fake throw and stuff w\c.mp and last but not least playing smart as fuck.

smart ken is probably one of the toughest characters to handle in the game because a smart ken will have no weaknesses.

don’t over analyze 3s. Its very easy to play as long as you can execute.

kens kara throw is crap, its not even worth your time. kpp into super is crap because your buffering qcf and you have a punch in their which means accidental fireballs can happen. Not to mention that 3 piece lights don’t work on all characters and require ken to be really deep for it to connect. c. short, c.short is the best bet. It doens’t require you to be in really deep so you can kinda tip this and get it to combo still and you don’t have to know what characters it works on because it works on them all. Besides 3 piece compared to the 2 piece lights into sa3, the 3 piece will only do 1 more point of life.

this is all you need with ken as far as super cancels go

c. short, c. short sa3
c.mk, hit confirm sa3
c.mp, link confrim sa3
uoh, sa3
b+mk sa3

advanced

s.mp, sa3
s.fp, sa3.

yes, s.fp is good but only if you can shoryuken on reaction. I find it really useful but i’m probably faster @ throwing srk’s out than most people. S.fp stuff alot of the crap in the game. Its rather risky but thats only if your reaction time sucks. You don’t need the “advanced” sa3 setups even though they can be used well and help out, playing smart ken only requires basic cancels and the abiltiy to break down your opponent.

smart ken can beat any character in the game consistently as long as you can break down what your opponent is doing and formulate a strategy to get around it.


#10

Throw evade is pretty much the last thing you’d learn in europe in 3s, even here in the Netherlands people focus a lot on teching throws while sometimes not doing so and evading instead can yield better results.

Option select has one very important downside and that’s that you are for one firing a crouching LP and secondly you are crouching, so the damage goes up should you get stuffed. I can’t really present you with cases where either one is better, but a good mixup between the two can throw your opponent off guard plenty of times. So no, it’s not an xbox live trick but it’s sometimes not a good thing to do:P

That one is sort of another option select yeah, if you’re Ken however you can fuck em real hard with s.MP© X LPsrk, (kara)LPsrk. Daigo did this during SBO3 finals against K.O, eventhough the whole thing was blocked it was a nice warning telling K.O never to parry throw:P


#11

How’s the arcade scene in Amsterdam?


#12

near death:P

Most activity has been in and near Rotterdam passed years, still currently nothing is happening. I’m actually kinda waiting for the belgium people to host a tournament in brussels, and ofcrouse I’m waiting for SBO qualifiers.


#13

i guess your right half the time when you watch ken matches via youtube, they got around 10 chances during a match to link/cancel to SAIII. With that in mind I’d say Ken is mostly zoning and offensive.

I think what makes people like famous japanese players so good is that they rarely miss the chances they get unlike some american matches.


#14

There’s a lot of different Ken styles that actually work, daigo and deshiken’s styles don’t even remotely resemble eachother. However, a true super art based Ken is a rare sight.

A lot of Kens rely just on their normals and hope their zoning and mixups will last them through the match. Daigo being a shining example of this. Yes these Kens do use c.MP -> SA3; c.LK, c.LK XX SA3; c.MK XX SA3 and MP,HP (X Hado) XX SA3 on occation, but not as often and they tend to use ex hado and air ex tastu more then their SA.

A very small amount of players actually use their SA to their full extend, this includes Deshiken. This doesn’t mean they will always SA when there’s an opening, Deshiken prefers to do the first round without SA unless he’s losing the round or unable to do so due to the risk involved. I cannot explain why he does that, but the simplest answer would be to prevent opponents starting to counter his game in second and third round(because these rounds will be too short for that). There’s also cases where Ken’s launch a normal and don’t expect it to hit at all, in which they don’t even bother to queue up their super,


#15

It looks retarded from another person watching but I always buffer up my super even if I’m full screen away. This is for characters with dash attacks such as Makoto,Yun in Genei-jin,Hugo meat squash, oro’s really fast dash. If you always buffer ur super you’ll get lucky a few times. I’ve hit makoto midway of her ex-dash punch with a random low forward and buffered it into super from like almost full screen away:looney: .


#16

your ken should never be a full screen away :stuck_out_tongue:


#17

Oh, I can name a situation where you’d want to be: Yun with meter.


#18

New Entry 5/20/07 YAY!
so far from experience and videos this is how I play against chun-li

 Use Sweep and play cautiously,always try to bait out her ex-spinning birds,don't rush down,slowly poke her/grab her to death.Time your sweeps,ex-hado's, and low forwards according to her poke timing/patterns.Use the first round to read her/test how she reacts to your setups.Take your time,if you have to waste 10 seconds of footsies to get in 1 poke, do so.I watch mostly kens will have ADD and dash in for no reason or try to beat her at poking fights.

Here a good video for the 1st round approach- http://youtube.com/watch?v=OWwUgsyUdWg
note a 00:40 Daigo could of shoryu’d off of low short,low jab which IMO is a good offensive against chun.I don’t like how daigo did the low short,Justin could have easily blocked it or ex-spinning bird kicked him.


Great video to learn from IMO.