Dan change discussion

dan

#1

hey guys, there’s a thread stickied in the general street fighter 4 area about the next version of the game, we should probably compile and format a list to put in that thread. If you guys want we can discuss it here and i’ll edit this post. I’ll have 3 sections, Currently discussing, thrown out ideas, and the list. I’ll throw anything into ideas to discuss, then once we’ve reached a decision i’ll put each idea into the trash bin, or the final list!

Ideas to discuss:

  • Shrinking dans hit box while Gadokening
  • General damage(mainly on gadoken and ex dan kicks)
  • crouchable light dan kicks
  • -1 actication frames for all ground based mp and hp normals
  • give dan positive block frame normals
  • faster recoveries on air danku’s
  • give ex danku longer range
  • have his taunts give him meter
  • fix c.lk and c.mk hit boxes
  • armor breaking ultra
  • more life/stun
  • Super armor moves
  • longer range sweep
  • improved super(possibly vacuum effect)
  • roll taunt
  • super taunt doing something
  • bigger danku hit boxes
  • more links(faster recovery from moves)
  • juggalable ultra
  • gadoken improvements(range or hit box)
  • an overhead

Thrown out Ideas:

Final list of changes:

Just tell me about any changes you guys want to this post, i’ll check dailyish and edit it, also heres the link to the discussion thread http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=184074.


#2

There’s a quite a few more Dan suggestions from other people in that. Here were mine.

I think the last thing is important because, well, Dan needs to suck comparatively to most other characters. As odd as it sounds, I would rather not see a mid-tier Dan.

But, ideally, the gap between best and worst should be something like A+ to C, rather than SS+ to D- Dan, with a damn-good player, should always be viable. But all those 8-2 and 7-3 matchups he’s got right now really suck, especially since how good a matchup he has mostly goes with the tier order. He’s horrible against the characters most likely to be running tourneys (Balrog, Sagat, Ryu), but he’s ok against characters that few people are gonna win a tourney with (Rose, Fei, Cammy).

I think every problematic matchup needs to be analyzed to figure out why Dan has so much trouble, then make some adjustments. My suggestion for a longer reaching ex danku is solely because of Blanka.


#3

…April fool’s was waaaaay past due mate.
Making Dan suck is as old as Claw losing his mask and claw.


#4

My own feedback in that thread:


#5

It’s hard to talk about… improving Dan since he is, well, Dan lol. That said:

  • Make his taunts(or a specific taunt move) build up his super meter
  • Give him a taunt dodge move akin to Abel’s roll to the other side of you. If not a taunt, you could make it more like a “stumble” that worked out in his favor :smiley:

Other than that I’d add a little suction effect to his super and make some tweaks to his hitbox in a few areas.

For humor factor, I’d give him a second Ultra as well, where he tries to pull off a gaduken 2 handed style like Ryu’s, only when it fires it falls to the ground then bounces/rolls across the screen :smiley:


#6

I’d like to see his Super Taunt do something in and of itself. It’s cool that you can use it to combo into ultra, but it seems like such a waste of a full super, especially when you factor in the damage scaling. What if Dan’s Super Taunt reset combo damage back to 100%? That may make Combo -> Super Taunt -> Ultra worth the meter.

-h


#7

Exactly. He’s kinda supposed to suck by design. But I think Dan’s matchups should all be half 5-5 and the other half 4-6. And NO 3-7s and 2-8s. Maybe a 6-4 against Sakura just cuz.

In general, Dan’s normals need to start faster and recover faster. He’s only got two links, and they’re both off of close s.mp. Increasing advantage (both hit and block) by +1 and lowering startup by -1 would really open up some nice links for him:

c.lk -> c.lk
c.lp -> c.lp
c.mp -> clp
s.mp -> c.mp
s.mp -> c.mk
c.mk -> koryu

UltraDavid also suggested s.mk be cancellable into specials. Not a bad idea for keeping pressure, but I’d be fine just giving it a little better frame data (6 frames, 0 on block, +3 on hit). Also, while the hitbox issue isn’t nearly as stupid as c.lk and c.mk, s.mk could also use a tweak, as dan’s toes will whiff thru the opp.

I also think all dankus hitboxes should be made bigger, not just dan knee. Getting consistent damage with Dan is hard enough presently, and it sucks really bad to have hk danku whiff the first hit in combos because the opp was crouching.


#8

Make him quicker…thats all I want…

Lower his startup frame rates for his dankicks and gadoken…seriously if gadoken is the crappiest fireball…make it the fastest one to come out…

dan kick start up is really slow…its annoying to get hit on startup by some random bullshit attack…like a jab spammer…

MAKE DAN FASTER!


#9

No offense, but that’s the lamest reason ever to define a character. It’s like saying Shingo should suck since he’s a Kyo fanboy, and yet he can be as deadly as Kyo.


#10

I don’t have much of a problem with gadou startup. The recovery is what irks me, but that’s usually because I’m using it at a bad time. I’m honestly fine with gadou speed really. I do wish fp matched its animation though and traveled a bit longer. That’s another move with a retarded hitbox that needs to be fixed.

I think all dankus need to be considered airborne after the second frame. My biggest problem with danku isn’t them interrupted; it’s getting interrupted while he’s still technically on the ground and getting combo’d or knockdown

Blame Capcom then.

And I’m not saying Dan should suck, I’m saying he should more than capable of winning any matchup, but still be naturally at a slight disadvantage in most cases. Half 5-5 half 4-6


#11

Make Dan invulnerable to all damage while doing Super Taunt! =D


#12

I’d love if Dan was not a link dependent character just because of the abundance of link dependency in SF4, but that’s more of a game issue than a Dan issue.


#13

Hey everyone looked at Choi as a joke character, but look at him in KoF 2002; Top Tier :stuck_out_tongue:
Capcom did a nice job with Dan in this game and if they give him just a little boost he’d be fine.

Wouldn’t we want that for say characters like Sagat, Zangief, Ryu, Dictator and such, as well?


#14

All I want is an Ultra that juggles so I can Kouryuken FADC Ultra.


#15

Next version of the game? SFIV was released about 1 and a half month ago, just so you know.


#16

The last thing I will say on this is that I do not mind characters with natural slight disadvantages while the poster boys have slight advantages for the obvious reasons.

It makes the game more interesting and wins with the REASONABLY disadvantaged (i.e. not trash tier) character that much more special.

That’s just it, though. The game is link-dependent, so dems da breaks. No point leaving Dan out in the cold when most other characters have them. It not only makes Dan a worse character, but it makes him boring when it comes to the execution department. I know link practicing isn’t everybody’s thing, but I certainly wouldn’t mind, especially if it made him much better in the end.

On a general game system note, I have to say that I don’t care for the low jab fest of this game. Links end up being important because of low jab links. Every top character can start with a low jab link into an ultra. But even without those links, low jab chains are still way too common, in my opinion. May as well as just give every character a three-hit non-cancellable chain; it would at least be more interesting to watch than c.lp xx c.lp xx c.lp over and over.


#17

Aha, I kinda dig all these ideas. Most of all, meter building off of taunt, although there’d probably have to be the stipulation that you must finish the taunt or the amount of meter you gain depends on how long you stay in the taunt.

This is a really good idea, particularly since Dan’s Ultra isn’t exactly amazing damage to begin with.

This. Yes.

Between those three changes I’d be very happy playing Dan. The only other two things I could possibly consider would be:

  1. An overhead, already. C’mon.
  2. Gado going just a little farther or being just a little bigger or staying out just a little longer, any one of these.

#18

hey guys i dont know if you know this but dan is supposed to suck, snk made ryo ( blatantly ripping off ryu ) so sf made dan who looks like ryo with a pink gi and terribly gay moves, he sucks and hes supposed to suck to strike back at king of fighter games and snk. i would have to say that dan in this game is good enough as it is hes a joke character who actually is considered better then my main ( vega ), but see i like working for wins, and i think the fact that they made a joke character better then 2 really well liked characters ( vega and guile ) should make you guys content enough. just my opinion


#19

:rolleyes: Thank you for the history lesson 95% of people here already know about, and for following up that grain of truth with countless poor reasons for why Dan should always be relegated to the shitters.


#20

ok i guess your right lets make the joke character good