Dancin' around d'em Grapplers

dee-jay

#1

This is here just to try and get a bit more information regarding some of the stronger grapplers that give DeeJay difficulty. Characters like Abel and Zangief (specifically the really good ones) who have the patience and resources to get around his maxouts and knock him down can be fairly difficult to get off. Thoughts/ideas on defensive options against this?


#2

should have used the matchup thread that is stickied.

playing smart, backthrowing when you get a chance, holding up, ex upkicks, ex sobat fadc, and switching characters are easy fixes.


#3

You can’t put all grapplers into the same catagory. Example…I like to play keep away from Zangief but I won’t try that on Abel because it won’t work and DJ has no choice but to rushdown Abel. The command throw frame data and properties are also different.


#4

Hm… I never thought of getting in on Abel. I always assumed you could zone him out the same way Guile can. That way you wouldn’t have to deal with Tornado Throw/Marseilles Roll mix-ups.


#5

frame advantage is the key.


#6

Ryu, Guile and Sim can not zone Abel out. That means DJ definately can’t. You have to look for openings and if you are able to get a knockdown, then you can go to work.


#7

I’m no expert but I recently had an offliner with one of the best abels in the country. The character’s wakeup is extremely poor and most of his defensive counters seemed difficult to throw out without reads. So long as you manage to find a way around step kick (fuck that move) and don’t get knocked down by anything random it shouldn’t be too hard to get all up in his shit and abuse his wakeup.


#8

He has no wakeup without meter. With meter EX Roll, EX tornado throw, and EX Change of Direction are all useful options for abel. Wakeup EX Wheel kick will go through meaty fireballs. You can’t safe jump Abel with meter because of EX TT. You can sometimes option select throw him out of wakeup EX roll but that’s situational.

He has no DP or autocorrect anti-air but he’s not free on wakeup. The major reasons he’s bad defensively are that his quickest crouching normal is 5 frames (his only 4 frames are cl.lp and cl.hp), he needs meter to do a wakeup, and his backdash is awful. Stagger strings are excellent against Abel, as is backdashing on his wakeup to bait EX TT. Throwing him on wakeup will beat EX TT when properly timed and only loses to wakeup U1 and wakeup normal TT.

Abel’s step kick is good but his walk speed is terrible so if you know how to abuse that he never really gets into its optimal range.

Zangief’s lariat and EX green hand can be thrown out of startup. Normal SPD can be thrown also but the timing is very strict. EX SPD, ultra, and super cannot be thrown. I like throwing Zangief on his wakeup.


#9

That’s interesting. Does EX TT lose throw immunity?


#10

Yes


#11

So I would guess that my best bet when going in on an Abel with meter is to be wary of his EX moves. EX TT and EX COD can easly be avoided with jumps on his wakeup. He can be thrown out of EX TT and Marseilles Roll as well. So conclusively, the odds seem to be more in DeeJay’s favor when Abel’s knocked down. But what about when he ISN’T knocked down? What are your best means of approach? It seems like Sobat Kicks would be a good idea in this situation if he thinks you’ll be throwing fireballs.


#12

I found nj.mk incredibly effective for zoning him btw. Abel has a huge goofy hitbox and the range on that move is deceptively long vs him.


#13

Do you know how punishable sobat kicks are? Rule one of fighting a grappler is “don’t get knocked down.” Why are you so focused on specials? Dee Jay has enough good normals to space Abel without relying on fireballs. If you whiff a cr.mk and he rolls through it you can just throw him before he recovers.


#14

Properly spaced sobat kicks Abel can’t punish(except EX I believe). It’s not like Zangief where any kind of sobat kick is suicide; I already know that. I’m trying to think of method to safely land a knockdown. Good Abels don’t just mindlessly roll in. And it’s like Jcool said: you need to be at an advantage. Abel’s standing shorts reach farther than DeeJay’s. And his forward step kick is better than a lot of DeeJay’s normals in terms of footsies.


#15

There’s a difference between having good normals and having good pokes. Anti-air normals aren’t a problem for DeeJay. Normals with good range that help him close the distance, not so much.


#16

I lost to a reeeallly good Gief at NEC. But I know i played him well and made him work for his win, came down to the wire. properly spaced Sobats seem to be pretty good, just be careful for a jump if he reads it. c.hk and jump attempt, but dear god dont let him block, he can punish with LP SPD super freely. when fighting a good gief, air slashers dont seem to mean much…at least not with this guy.