Dan's Muay Thai ( Know thy enemy)


#1

I don’t know how familiar some of you are with Dan’s story but it`s actually quite interesting. Essentially he had only the most basic Ansatsuken training under Gouken before being expelled and left on his own, at which point he decided to learn… muay thai. The very art used to kill his father, is the one he sought to master.

The interesting part is you might never realize it if you never read the character’s story or pay close attention to it, but once you do I think you’ll be amused by just how much of his arsenal is more closely related to that of the muay thai fighters ( Adon, Sagat) instead of the shoto gang that kicked him out ( Ryu, Ken, Gouken, Akuma, etc.)

As a Dan player and a sort of fan of the lore I felt like sharing with you these tidbits, though the unwary might even feel that they are easter eggs, of Dan’s moveset. These aren’t all of them, just the more obvious ones, but if you look you’ll find a bunch more.

After the image I’ll pop up with some explanations. Check it out!

**Dan’s Muay Thai! **

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/277/0u28.png

You will immediately notice that quite a few of the moves are actually reversed in order to make it a little less obvious. You might also notice that hand placement is slightly changed on some of them, to emphasize Dan’s karate influence. Nevertheless, it should be pretty clear. I’m not sure if it is a coincidence that Dan’s best moves are in fact, his Muay Thai moves while his karate ones are pretty much useless ( except for gut punch, pretty much).

Notice the dragon punch: the shotos will bend the leg directly under the punching arm, but Sagat will bend the opposite leg and have his body much more erect… just like, you said it: Dan! THAT AINT NO DRAGON PUNCH, THAT’S A GOD DAMN TIGER UPPERCUT :open_mouth:

Dan kicks are quite obviously Tiger Knees, but had you noticed just how Dan’s st.mk was identical to Adon’s st.hk?

Dan even uses his elbow in the close lp, which is a muay thai staple.

So there it is. Dan is a shitty shoto because he only had like a week’s worth of lessons… the rest is all muay thai and stubbornness!


#2

Dat muay thai elbow!

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/4036/reml.png


#3

But Muay Thai is awesome. He should be way better.


#4

Strange how he would emulate his worst enemy. Perhaps he saw his father as the most powerful man in the universe so seeing him destroyed handily by Sagat made him subconciously give more importance to muay thai.


#5

He knew Muay thai was strong, he was refused at the karate school so I guess the trajectory was clear.

He isn’t emulating Sagat, the style is just the same. He also shares many similarities with Adon.

But yeah, pretty cool, especially when you consider that his special moves from karate are dogshit ( gadoken, bitch please) and his muay thai moves are devastating ( dan kicks, koryuken).

So one can argue that Saikyo-ryu is in fact the strongest style… if he could succesfully perform the moves from both styles that he actually attempts, instead of being a layman in one and only somewhat competent in the other.

Turns out Saikyo is pretty fucking strong, it’s Dan that is hopeless in his clumsiness and lack of talent. :smiley:


#6

Wow, pretty interesting find. I did kind of notice the close standing roundhouse and far mk similarities, but this never actually clicked with me lol.


#7

Just remember, as pathetic as Dan seems, he can still do a fireball, while you can’t.


#8

The hell I cant


#9

I wouldn’t want to be a fireball character. Outside King in KoF and Samus in Melee if you count that I don’t think I usually main many.


#10

The ability to throw a fireball > the inability to, regardless.


#11

Dan is going to be top tier in Ultra. Wait and see.


#12

X-posting from the other thread.

Uh. Yes. Indeed. There’s a very clear that Saikyo-Ryu is a mix of Muai Thai and Karate. And as the lore goes, Dan only got a limited training from Gouken, which is quite naturally showed in his gameplay. The most obvious examples being the Shoto moves. It’s pure basic Character Design that follows the #1 rule. Show, don’t tell.

However, that doesn’t necessarily mean that Dan copied Sagat’s moves. He doesn’t condemn a whole martial art for one incident(albeit a very terrible one). I think that it just shows that Dan is a tad smarter than what most give him credit for(still not that much more :P), and it’s often shown in his dialog that he’s quite knowledgeable about different martial arts. It’s shown again in his style.

Muai Thai and Karate isn’t the only martial art he implemented into Saikyo-Ryu. Compare Dan’s moves with Abel. There’s hints of MMA(Go was also a MMA/Muai Thai fighter btw, the lore is a bit confusing) with open hand strikes and poses. There’s even a small taste of Tai Chi.

Dan basically took his knowledge and concepts from his incomplete training of different martial arts and combined them to be Saikyo-Ryu. Muai Thai being his most proficient since that is the one he have the most training in. Adon and Sagat have similarities between their moves, even tho the uses between them are radically different, so it makes sense for Dan to have that too.

Again, it’s the #1 rule of Character Design(also why the majority of previous SF characters are better design wise than recent ones :P). Show, don’t tell.

EDIT: Yes, it’s mainly his incompetence why he’s so bad at these styles. How radically different it would be if he actually took a good look at his style and improved it instead of being so over confident all the time. :stuck_out_tongue:


#13

His back throw, a poorly executed seoi nage is arguably judo, though other shotos use a similar throw also. I’m not sure I see the open hands as MMA training as much as it reflects Capcom grasping at straws to make similar characters as different as possible.

While Dan’s muay thai moves are all PERFECTLY executed, his karate moves are not. Among the shoto-wannabe moves that he performs poorly are his seoi nage, his cr. hp, his nj. mp and mk, and of course his fireball.

The tai chi-like movements of his stance are actually not tai chi at all. They resemble a layman moving his arms around like he would imagine a kung fu master would. Proof is that at times he abruptly stops before changing direction, which does not occur in tai chi chuan.

It looks like your uncle pretending to do kung fu while he goes " haaa yaaa" or something. My guess is they asked someone to do exactly that and used the model.

His final stance though, with one arm ahead and one near the waist and palms facing down, is obviously real life shotokan karate, which no other character resembles ( I’d say Makoto is more like goju ryu).

Pay no attention to Dan’s stance. It’s a joke and nothing else IMO

EDIT: btw Abel’s outfit, throws and moves strongly resemble Sambo, I dont know if they claim he fights in MMA but if so, it smells like bullshit because most basic MMA moves are not in his arsenal whereas Sambo is pretty much in every thing he does.

Here’s what I mean:


#14

Abel was supposedly based on MMA legend Fedor Emelianenko, for many years regarded as the best MMA fighter in the world. Fedor was a world class Sambo wrestler, though he obviously incorporated other things.


#15

Sagat killed Dan’s father?

Damn, I wish I’d watch the endings of the SF games I player ever.


#16

Well, I must be an idiot for mixing up MMA and Sambo. Sorry about that.

However, his poses in his moves resemble MMA. And the Tai Chi stuff isn’t in his standard pose. Mostly in his walking. The slight forward bent knees and the hand poses suggest Tai Chi. But knowing Dan, he most likely doesn’t know about the usage of this pose and as you said, like someone who saw it on TV. :stuck_out_tongue:

I wouldn’t say perfectly executed Muai Thai moves. In Muai Thai, you generally want to keep your body “enclosed”. When you throw out a punch or a kick, you still want to keep the rest of the limbs as close as possible to the main body for quick defense and the back should be behind the moves to add force and ability to quickly regain your pose. Of course, this game tries to add a bit of style to the moves, so it’s not that obvious. But just a quick look between Sagat and Dan and you’ll see that Sagat keeps his back in roughly the same position, the neck always a bit sunk down to the chest, knees and leg positions always slightly bent and close, always tries to keep one elbow tight and close to the body, and most importantly his moves have much more of a “spear” feeling than a “slam” like Dan’s.
Take Tiger Knee for example. Feet close to the body, knee straight out towards the opponents jaw, and the body a bit sunken in to put the whole body into forward moving blow. A “spear” to deliver maximum force from one point of the body(which is why elbows and knees are used so much in Muai Thai).
Dan, however, is doing it slightly different. It looks more like he’s hitting the opponent with the entirety of his shin, with the body positioned to “slam” downwards on the opponent.

This is mostly because due to the other influences in Saikyo-Ryu. When Sagat and Adon put their entire body into a forward moving blow, a spear, Dan keeps his position as he did Karate moves. His back and whole pose is slightly more straighter, giving that feeling of defense that Karate is known for. His moves feel more like, again, a slam(not as much body behind the blow to retain the position, power a bit spread out on the limb) while Sagat and Adon is a spear(body fully behind the attack, concentrated on one point).

Maybe I’m just over analyzing everything WAAAAAAY too much.


#17

Take a couple of steps back and compare Dan’s muay thai moves in relation to Sagat/Adon and his karate moves in relation to Ryu, that’s what I mean.

There’s a huge difference. His Ryu-like moves ( listed above) look pathetic. His muay thai moves look spot-on.


#18

Eh, you mentioned PERFECTLY(caps and all), so I just wanted to say that they aren’t really. Close, but no.
And yes, I know that his Karate based moves are horrible.

There’s one thing I find funny in all the games Dan have been. The dialog he gets is always 3 versions.

  1. He gets comments on how bad he is, how weak he is and such(mostly from people he have fought against before).
  2. He got potential to be great if he focused a bit more(surprisingly, a lot of this comes from different teachers and masters).
  3. How funny he is. :smiley:

So, I wonder what this potential that some people see is. Is it Dan’s ability and creativity to blend different martial arts into one(even tho half of his moves is from unfinished training)? Pure stubbornness and willpower? Secret power that have been passed down his family through out the generations(cue Louis Armstrong theme)?

Also. A minor gripe of mine is that a LOT of people portray Dan as coward and a cheater even tho it’s specifically said in his bio that he dislikes dishonorable fighters.


#19

And he’s no coward either.


#20

That is debatable. :stuck_out_tongue:
I’d say that most of the time his ego and overconfidence is just so massive it just plain beats out his cowardice.