This is definitely a great find! It’s a lot easier to do than I originally thought and is a very viable and consistent way to land his lvl 1 super.
So Seoul since you already have done the mid-combo parries, do you know if you parry in the air if you can combo after or does it only knock them away?
Unfortunately lots more characters can combo into level 1 so while it is nice to do so it isn’t groundbreaking (Spike and Sweet Tooth can also). I could not get it to work myself, I’d dash away and my down-circle would be fired in the opposite direction. Help a brother out?
Lastly about throws, the amount of knockback and wallbounce on his sidethrow should make it usable only as a 2v2 tool for co-ordinated players, because it looks like many players can get a free super from it.
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Cancelling back circle with square is a lot easier and keeps your char facing the right direction.
You can also cancel with neutral circle. Dante has a pseudo wave dash if you choose to empty cancel later in his command dash. This leads into normals, grabs, parry, blocking, rolling, and of course, supers.
Just had my lunch break and tested out the empty cancel. Oh man I’m loving it. I was tired last night and misinterpreted this. I actually combo’d into Level 1 from an Aerial Arbiter on accident.
Looks like PersonaZ already made a video showing if off. I asked him permission to post but no response yet. I will post an example later tonight when I get a chance that will be more simple. I was hoping/kinda thinking Dante would have to shorten his recovery like this and I’m glad you found it scuzzy.
Edit: Shords and scuzzy i’ll have to try both using square and neutral circle. Currently i don’t have a problem hitting the empty cancel but if I can make it even more consistent why not.
Ah I see. Still tricky to me but with practice comes success.
Probably known to everyone but not posted so here goes:
Level 2 is AMAZING for punishing rolls, on reaction, from pretty considerable distances. Why work it into a combo when they can offer themselves up on a silver platter?
Using Dojo as a measurement, any forward dash towards Dante that does not go past him can be punished from a max distance of it starting around the far edge of the mat with Dante in the corner, factoring in reactions. As for backward dash, it hits very safely if the roll starts from around the center of the first square of mat if Dante is in corner, and can go further with greater reaction/reading.
Edit: Just found out rolls are not universal. The above measurements were done with Sackboy, but if the roller is say, Fat Princess, it looks like you can punish a backdash very comfortably from about the beginning of the last square on the mat.
Sorry didn’t see this! Well I’m not sure what happens when you Parry an aerial opponent but if you Parry a grounded opponent attacking you (you are close to ground), you launch them into the air. This allows you to follow up with jumping square attacks. I’ll have to try out Parry vs aerial opponents and the side throws with my buddies whenever they decide to start playing more…
I just tried scuzzy’s method of hitting circle twice and its definitely easier. Are you still having problems Samuel?
I also think you can invite players into practice mode for testing things like that, so if you have time tonight I can be your training dummy for anything you want to test.
I might see if any popular supers can combo off sidethrow wallbounce in a bit.
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Man, I cannot win anything with Dante, even against relatively lame players, in ffa. I have my BnB down and decent blocks and such, but I am definitely seeing what Kamui is saying: I am having a really hard time building meter in wacky multiplayer matches. What do you all do? I bet you dash and cancel around like superstars never getting touched and doing all kindsa stuff.
Got slightly better when I added gunning from a distance then canceling into parry/dash when things get hairy, but is too slow.
Also for all these empty cancels and such, they are really fun but how do you go about using them in a match? Do you try for them raw on a pre-occupied opponent, have an oki setup with them (seem too slow to), what? I fear learning too much tech but having it all lost on what I do with it.
Can we talk Devil Trigger? Any tips for moving around fastest in it and picking up the kills? With my current gain I can get it at the end of a timed battle if I used no other super, so I really need to maximize my kills with it.
In 1v1? Forget DT unless you get an early lead and are trying to solidify it.
In FFA or 2v2, you should be using Ebony and Ivory rushdown and airdash attacks to close gaps quickly between you and enemies. Also be mindful of the stage you are in when using it. Too large, and it may not be worth the cost.
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FFA Matches: I’m totally feeling you on that. I am having a hard time winning consistently here. Like you, I have my BnBs down and average blocking/dodging. Your comment about dash cancelling like superstars really made me laugh. I wish it were that easy but I think once we all get used to his movement things might get only a little better. I tried to adjust my gameplay in FFA by adding Parrying after we talked more however it didn’t go so well. There are attacks that you can Parry but you will whiff the opponent leaving you open to attacks. That happened to me quite a lot last night. I’m still trying to figure out my strategy for FFA really… I always end up being the guy trying to prevent someone’s Level 3 while the other opponents are oblivious. I end up getting whacked by them during a combo and the guy with Level 3 destroys us. Things get so whacky in FFA matches and when you have to chase opponents down it becomes an uphill battle for Dante.
Empty Cancels in match: Well the tech is still new so I’m personally working ways to add it to my game. I’ve only used it so far to setup Level 1 Supers in a few matches. Each time I’ve done it it, I was away from the other two opponents (FFA). I have not yet caught multiple opponents with the stagger and empty cancelled (I cant wait!) At times I found myself trying too hard to get that Square x3 stagger when I had a Level 1 Super. I think I have to be more patient, not force the situation, and wait for the opportunity to present itself.
Devil Trigger: I personally don’t even go for Devil Trigger too much as I try to get my kills with Level 1. When I do i try to wait for opponents to be above me or below me (if I am on a platform). As soon as I activate Devil Trigger I will hit u.Triangle or d.jump and plink d.Triangle for the quick kill and cancel into Angel Boost towards the direction of any living characters. After that it can get a bit hard with multiple people running in different directions. At that point I just hope for them to spawn near you. Ebony and Ivory seem to be the most efficient in Devil Trigger considering you can cancel whiffed hits unlike Square.
Thanks everyone, definitely helped.
In terms of FFA it is true we are fighting a battle where everything is stacked against us: we have to work harder for meter, our l1 and 2s are junk compared to the best, and our best stages for building meter (the bigger it is the easier to isolate and punish) are the ones Devil Trigger is least effective. I also think, and I elaborate below, that Dante is a very “not strong in killing, but strong in not being killed” character, which is great in theory evading all those lv1 and 2s, but he can only do so much against 3s like Sackboy and Cooper.
In terms of super management you are right, Lv1 is crappy but doing it often is our best bet for winning. The issue is in finding the perfect time in which you get 2-3 kills without getting stuffed (FFA in a nutshell >> ). I still think Dante’s canceling and mobility has great potential here, however, in that where characters normally see “lol a combo sneak and super them” you can cancel/dash behind them and punish their hubris. In fact I think mobility >super punish might be more effective than canceling>super combo in ffas (we get interrupted in our normal combos why should we feel safe in the harder ones?). As an optimist tactics like these may be why his level 1 is so poor in the first place. Need to be better before I can see if theory becomes practice though.
As for Parry I am the opposite: been using it more in FFA but to great success. I am very stingy with it though, busting it out midcombo only when I know there is an incoming square behind me or a super telegraphed move like Nariko/Princess dive bomb. In other instances even though I think Parry might be possible I find it better to air dash the F out of there and stay safe, and if it was a projectile that would hit the retreating dash, I ^triangle above it then dash at them in an attempt to punish with >square and into level 2 or strong combo, ideally (it happened once…).
I am gonna try Dante for another day or two and if still no success I think I will relegate him to a 1v1 main and learn someone more abusable in ffa.
I agree with all the points Samuel brought up. Dante gets stuffed easily in FFA. His cancels are only effective you land a clean hit on opponents which can be fairly difficult. Sackboy and just about any projectile character except Radec come to mind. If you don’t hit anything = no meter = no kills.
Empty cancels have proven to be useful if you’re mid combo. Instead of commiting to a full back dash, you can back dash cancel into options suited to your needs. Maybe even a preemptive super to catch the incoming opponent off guard.
You need to make a lot of good reads against a randomly spamming crowd. It can get frustrating when you get beat down by a square spamming Kratos.
Kratos, Sackboy, and Radec… These three might be the most frustrating characters to play against w/ Dante in FFA. Kratos’s reach, Sackboys fan and electrified Wii fit board, and Radec spamming f.Triangle across the screen can build frustration… I tried to Parry against Kratos’s long reaching chain (not sure which input) and got stuck whiffing quite often.
I guess we should work on developing tech for certain match ups if we really want to level Dante up and make him a serious contender in FFA. Thing is its so hard with the mayhem in FFA. Wish I had more time to play and work on this stuff, but alas responsibilities.
Good luck Samuel! Let us know how it goes. One question, has anyone been using Dante in 2v2 games? Its hard to find a partner that you can consistently play with and have good synergy with but I’m really loving 2v2.
I think Dante works well in 2v2 with a solid partner. It increases the chances of 1v1 where he shines, lv1 and 2 are much easier to connect with someone else helping, and his ability not to die is more useful than in ffa.
I want 2v2 to be my main mode, so add me if people want to experiment.
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A few things to explain here.
First, notation: square =1, triangle = 2, circle = 3, X = x. xx = cancel, all u2’s SHOULD BE the full thing, granting 10 AP. It’s possible but I just didn’t do it in the video. I basically missed out on 16 AP. Also, it’s possible to end the combo with f1+1+1, granting an additional 5 AP at the end. totaling IIRC 175ap. the combo is difficult but when I found it I was pulling it off pretty consistently, missing just a few shots of the pistol here or there. I ran home to record this video. the trick to doing the empty cancels (xx ub2 xx df3, 3) is to do them as fast as possible, and make sure your inputs are crisp or it won’t come out. The trick to getting the full 10 AP off the pistol shots is to cancel the first 2 as soon as the 3rd hit of the 1 connects, maximizing the time you have to let the pistol shots hit.
1+1+1 xx 2 xx ub2 xx df3, 3, 1+1+1 xx 2 xx ub2 xx df3, 3, 1+1+1 xx 2 xx ub2 xx df3, 3, 1+1+1 xx 2 xx ub2 xx df3, 3, f1+1+1.
Once I get more time I’ll post the whole thing perfectly. This is extemely deadly as you can basically tack on whatever you want after the 1st four loops, a level 1, 2, or 3 super. It also makes dante a threat after he has only 30 (thirty!) ap because he can do 4 loops and cancel into super, the combo is started off his most basic attack, and it works anywhere on the screen, unhindered by walls or the edge of platforms.
I haven’t had time to maximize the combo potential of the empty cancel with the IAS. I’m wondering if the Tremor re-launch can be used after a few loops to maximize damage. Nice use of Triangle to add that extra AP, I had just figured that out last night before I went to sleep. I’m thinking maybe after 3 reps you can hit Tremor/Angel Dash cancel/High Time? I’ll have to try it out when I get home as I left my Vita at home.
Edit: Maybe you’ll be restricted to hitting n1/Square twice before Tremor.
I had a little bit of time last night so I tried to optimize Dante’s BnB and got up to 181 AP (no corner needed). It seems I could only do one loop or else the IAS would kick in early. I added some other combos from a recording I did earlier and compiled it into a slightly less ghetto video compilation. I added it to the Videos section replacing my original video.
You can see an Aerial Arbiter into Level 1 in here but as I mentioned in an earlier post, the timing/spacing seems to be very strict. None of the upthrow combos in there are optimized as that is something I haven’t worked on yet. I gotta work on some corner combos. Right now i’m just doing the j.s.1,1,1, xx j.2 xx f.3 xx j.1
I also changed the notation in the thread to match 1,2,3.
Dante definitely suffers in FFA. Unless you manage to get someone all to yourself, uninterrupted, his longer combos, (relatively) high execution and subpar level 1 all work against him. He doesn’t have any easy long range attacks for easy AP, and though you can catch people unawares, his counter is an unreliable form of preventing a backstab, which happens far too often (and, it seems, always right as I’m attempting a level 1 combo). I’ve ragequit FFA, as it feels too random for me, and it feels like an uphill battle for Dante at the moment. His j.3 is a great tool for setting up ane asy level 2 though, if you can get enough meter.
Dante shines in 1v1 and 2v2 settings; as we have shown in this topic, he can get enough AP for a level 1 off of one hit confirm, and then the next hit confirm is just using scuzzy’s level 1 combo for the kill. In 2v2, it’s much easier to set up his level 1 and 2 - I usually play 2v2 with a Good Cole on my team, and his freeze rocket projectile easily sets up kills for Dante, particularly with level 2. Also, Dante’s 1+1+1 stagger ->angel cancel rinse/repeat allows you to hold people in place really easily for your partner to get a super, even if they have bad level 1 or 2’s. Usually my 2v2 strategy with the Good Cole I play with revolves around Cole covering Dante’s approach with his projectiles, Dante building meter for early level 1 kills, and Cole saving up for a level 2/3 for double kills/clean up towards the end of the match. usually the opposing team is a Sly/Raiden team, and they have a similar synergy to Dante/Good Cole. The games tend to go completely in either team’s favor, usually depending on if Dante kills Raiden or if Raiden kills Dante first.
Also Raiden’s Counter -> level 1 is dumb.
I like 2v2 just as much as 1v1 in this game, so I play both fairly regularly.