Dash Swing Blow Follow-up thread!

balrog

#1

>>Introduction

Dash Swing Blow is one of Boxer’s most devastating attacks and is central to his offense. As a special move, it can be cancelled into from various normals, and as an overhead, it must be blocked high. It also breaks armor, so an opponent’s Focus Attack is futile. A landed DSB can potentially turn the tide of a round and end it in a matter of seconds. This thread is dedicated to making the most of a successfully landed DSB.

>>Numerical Data

Damage / Stun
LP: 80 Damage / 100 Stun
MP: 90 Damage / 150 Stun
HP: 100 Damage / 200 Stun
EX: 100 Damage / 200 Stun

EX Properties
One-hit Super Armor, otherwise identical to HP version.

Execution Frames
LP: 31f, 22f if close
MP: 38f, 23f if close
HP: 51f, 23f if close
EX: 51f, 23f if close

Hit Advantage / Block Advantage
LP: +10f / -5
MP: +10f / -7
HP: +10f / -8
EX: +10f / -5

What you actually need to know
-All versions allow an easy link on hit
-All versions are unsafe on block (but pushes you outside of normal throw range)
-It comes out slowly, so it’s easily countered. Be careful.
-Use the HP version if up-close. The stun is worth it.

>>Dash Swing Blow Follow-ups

As previously mentioned, Dash Swing Blow is +10f on hit and can therefore be easily comboed afterwards. However, one obstacle in this is that the follow-ups are character specific. In other words, the best follow-up that works on one character may not work on a different character. Also, depending on the circumstances, choosing the best follow-up depends on whether your super and/or ultras are available to you. Using this move effectively requires knowing which follow-ups work on each character specific matchup, and knowing which are the optimal follow-ups for every possible situation.

Here are the specific follow-ups that will be examined:
Assume HP/EX Dash Swing Blow is used. MP Version does 10 less Damage, 50 less Stun. LP Version does 20 less Damage, 100 less Stun.

(A) c.MP xx HP Headbutt (298 Damage, 460 Stun)
Optimal Conditions: Most damaging follow-up. 4 frame link.

(B) c.LK xx HP Headbutt (258 Damage, 410 Stun)
Semi-Optimal Conditions: Use when (A) is not possible, or for an easier combo. 7 frame link.

© c.MP xx HP Dash Straight (266 Damage, 460 Stun)
Sub-Optimal Conditions: Use when (A) and (B) are not possible. 4 frame link.

(D) c.HK (190 Damage, 320 Stun)
Worst Conditions: Use when (A), (B) and © are not possible. Life sucks. Cut your wrists. 3 frame link.

>> With Ultra…

(A) c.MP xx HP Headbutt, Ultra (497 Damage, 460 Stun)

(B) c.LK xx HP Headbutt, Ultra (457 Damage, 410 Stun)
Combo (B) with Ultra

>> With Super…

(A) c.MP xx HP Headbutt, Super (498 Damage, 460 Stun)

(B) c.LK xx HP Headbutt, Super (458 Damage, 410 Stun)

© c.MP xx HP Dash Straight xx Super (508 Damage, 460 Stun)

>>> Also…

(E) c.MP xx EX Dash Upper, c.LP, c.LK xx HP Headbutt (378 Damage, 625 Stun)
Hyper-Optimal Conditions: Your opponent somehow got hit by Dash Swing Blow while standing. Fuck him up.

(E+) c.MP xx EX Dash Upper, c.LP, c.LK xx (Reset) HP Dash Swing Blow into (A, B, C, D). (488-596 Damage, 845-985 Stun)
Uber-Hyper-Optimal Conditions: Time to get paid! Your opponent is probably dizzy. Don’t forget to HP+HK.

Character Specifics - Opponent is Crouching

Combo (A) or (B)
-Abel
-E.Honda
-Gouken
-Dictator
-Zangief

Combo (A) only
-Blanka
-Guile

Combo (B) only
-Akuma
-Chun-Li
-Claw
-C.Viper
-Dan
-Dhalsim
-Fei Long
-Ken
-Rose
-Rufus
-Ryu
-Sakura

Combo ©
-Cammy
-Sagat

Combo (D)
-Boxer
-El Fuerte
-Gen
-Seth

Character Specifics - Opponent is Standing

Combo (E) or (A) or (B)
-All Opponents Except Akuma and Blanka

Combo (E) or (B)
-Akuma and Blanka

General Follow-up Advice

-Before the beginning of every match, take a moment and think about the optimal follow-up for the character you’re fighting. Play out a connected Dash Swing Blow with the appropriate follow-up in your head. Otherwise, prepare to get fucked up by Tiger Destruction because you totally thought that you could headbutt Sagat.
-If you have a Super and an Ultra, always use the Ultra (provided that you can set it up with a Headbutt). Always.
-If you have a Super but not an Ultra (or if you can’t Headbutt) it’s usually wise to cash in your 200 extra damage.
-An exception to the above rule is if you are winning/losing by a wide enough margin where the benefits of this extra damage is outweighed by the benefits of starting the next round with a full meter. This is just general meter management and is an instinct that you acquire with time and experience.
-If you’re not comfortable hit-confirming whether your opponent was standing or crouching at the time that you connected your DSB, just always assume that your opponent is crouching and stick to that one combo. Exception: Blanka (Substitute with Combo C).
-If you have a Super, I would recommend using xx Headbutt, Super over xx Dash Straight xx Super whenever possible. The Dash Straight version does a whopping 10 extra damage(!), but with the Headbutt version you can notice if your Headbutt dizzies your opponent and still have time to withhold your Super. You don’t have this luxury with Dash Straight xx Super.

DSB Follow-up Reference Spreadsheet

Much of the information here is derived from this spreadsheet:
clicky

Applications of DSB in a match
There is some useful info on using this move. clicky

Credit to:
-Mr. Trite: The originator of the above research.
-Ephemeral: The other originator of the above research, among many other contributions to the Boxer forum.
-Jay Wang: Much of this data was an extrapolation of his chart.
-c.LP: I seriously don’t know what I’d do without you in my life. I’d probably main Chun-Li or something shudder


#2

Oops. I didnt realize this info was already posted in the Mindgames thread. Feel free to delete if deemed unnecessary for its own thread.


#3

i actually think it does deserve its own thread. some people might not make it all the way down my thread to read the stuff mr.trite and I compiled, so this is still pretty important for people to read imo.


#4

Kudos to all of you, I was getting tired of whiffing pokes into headbutts on matchups that don’t come up often, then cussing at myself while being punished and reminding myself to test whatever and then not remembering to bother later.


#5

bokchoy is it fair to assume that c.LK works on

-Abel
-E.Honda
-Gouken
-Guile
-M.Bison
-Zangief

?

Yeah it does less damage then c.MP but i don’t think i’m gonna be able to switch the combo depending on the character so i’d rather just use c.LK for all of them.


#6

all but guile on that list works with c.lk


#7

i was just messing arround with lp.dash-> super vs headbutt-> supper and the headbutt does a little more damage 6 but about 80 more stun

edit:
you can do the hp version for 10 more damage and the same stun but i find the headbutt is easier to connect with


#8

Are the same rules applied for ex dash swing blow? I’ve done ex dash swing blow, med punch, fierce headbutt against ryu before


#9

good post thanks for taking the time to compile


#10

This.

To help avoid people ignoring the big threads and asking questions, if it’s right out here in the open hopefully it’ll stop some of the dumb threads coming up


#11

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=6281621&postcount=51

Just organizing.


#12

I’ve put together an easy cheat sheet which can be printed out and should be on you at all times for quick reference!

It’s pretty self explainatory.

Enjoy!

http://justin.j.huang.googlepages.com/SF4.Balrog.Overhead.Followup.pdf


#13

thanks. this’ll come in very handy!


#14

This is going to take a while for me to remember.


#15

JayWang is a fucking beast.


#16

why am i emperical :< (does sound cool though)


#17

:rofl:

lols my bad.
typo

i was at work when i was putting it together plus that and i’m an engineer so yeah … “empirical” is a word that we commonly use … :S

i’ll fix it and re-up


#18

Whoo

I’m going to print out tons of these and post it all over my school


#19

That’s sweet, man. I’m trying to look for any differences between corner and mid-screen. I couldn’t find any. I’d double-check but I’m really dizzy from the first time.

Edit: I’ve completely revamped the entire first post to include every given scenario in and present it in a way that it’s easy to read/understand. Let me know of any inaccuracies.


#20

empirical research done here in the balrog labs. (y)

the trick is actually not use overhead punches to break crouchers only, but for SA happy faggots too, so c.mp xx HB is very important. if the other guy is standing, i like to even pop an exRU after c.lk, and then do another overhead. of course u gotta test the waters to see that you’re not dealing with a MASHER.

i’m trying to use exDSB as an AA (still testing this stage)