i think it just might be me but im gettin annoyed of people just dashing out of elfs attacks. u can dash out on almost all of fuertes moves! this is my biggest issue against chun li and i just played a cammy that did the same thing. back dash to combo. wat do u all do to avoid this.
slide works wonders. try it sometime
And if theyre backdashing all the time, its simple enough to predict the backdash and land fuerte’s attacks anyway. Its all about the adaptation. But yea, mix in some meaty slides, or even some run -> throws, and theyll start thinking twice.
im not talkin about wake up though. wake up is fine. im talkin about gettin the initial take down. chun li usually just turtles in the corner. u ran at her, she either jump grabs, jump kicks or back dashes.
If someone is turtling in the corner, I try to bait with a run->back turn then punish with a tostada or a tortilla.
A few options in this situation.
Turtle back. You can run away as well as, if not better than she can. I personally hate doing this, but it can be very effective. Think about it. If someone is turtling, they WANT you to come and attack them. Why should you do what THEY want you to do?
Advance at her without running. She will try to poke at you to keep you out, but dont underestimate your f.mk, and again, even your slide. And you have the option of EX running through her pokes, and then going for whatever.
Feint that shit. Run -> Stop -> EX Guac (Or even Ultra, if you have it.) will destroy her jumps. (Though im not 100% sure how it will fare against her air throw) You can also try run -> stop -> tag her with an AA c.hp, and follow it up with another mixup. Which (assuming she is a backdash-whore as you say) she will probably backdash. Anticipate accordingly. You can pretty much treat this follow up mixup off of the AA c.hp as if it is a wake up.
This is assuming she jumps though, but If she backdashes, you might even be able to catch her with a lk guac, since i THINK she counts as airborne when she backdashes. (Can someone confirm this for me?) Its a useful tool, but can be somewhat difficult to impliment on the fly. And like we have said before, Slide and even Run -> stop -> throw will serve you well. Even a f.mk -> blockstring/mixup will work well here.
A big weakness for a lot of fuerte players is forgetting about the tools he has outside of his run options. And a lot of the difficult matches/big losses come from people relying too much on splashes/tortillas etc. Whenever i lose its almost always because of this. And it makes me cringe every time i watch videos of myself doing it. >_>
I am almost sure that EX guac beats any kind of airthrow. So if Chunli/Cammy likes to jump back a lot, don’t even fear the airthrow if you have EX guac. Remember that you also have an air throw, and yours have a longer range than both Chunli and Cammy so if you do it before or even at the same time as thiers, you have a higher chance of winning (here is the range data for airthrows): http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2009…eet-fighter-4/
Ranges: cammy 1.0, chunli 1.1, Fuerte 1.15, Vega 1.2, Guile 1.25
So bait them into jumping and then stop and EX guac (or just normal guac is fine mostly if you want to save your meter for other things).
Also, Chunli can’t change her trajectory once she jumps, so you can easily land an anti-air ultra. be a bit careful with Cammy since she can change her trajectory to avoid it, although if you have really good timing you will be able to catch her. For cammy I prefer to try and bait a cannon spike instead and then land the ultra, she has other moves with slow recovery as well so use that to your advantage.
As mentioned by ILL_BILL, turtling works wonders, be patient and it will pay off. Slides are safe whether Chunli/Cammy jumps or dashes as well.
I just tried doing lk guac on chunli’s backdash in training, it didnt work so it seems her backdash isn’t considered airborne, didn’t work on Cammy as well (unlike Rose which I tried after and worked easily on her).
hope this helps.
Yea i thought EX guac would be fine. Didnt want to say it though in case i was wrong.
Thanks for checking that lk guac thing bro. Im nowhere near a console atm otherwise i wouldve done it myself.
The range stuff on the airthrows is interesting. I had no idea Claw’s had more range than Fuerte’s.
thanx. ill give that stuff a try
They are indeed considered airborne for most of the frames (you can observe this by air grabbing them), but they are not high enough to be grabbable with guac.
While I’m still newb to fuerte, I’ve seen some ppl backdashing, and run -> HK seemed to always get them when they’re not in the corner. For jumping opponents, I wall jump them (yes, I’m jump happy), but I’m sure there are better options like already mentioned EX guac. If opponent mixes them up, then I start guessing or just go for a little delayed splash.
this happened to me when i first started maining fuerte - lots of wins till they figured out back dash… what was worse was when they figured out to dash forward!
if theyre dashing forward, then theyre probably got your game down. change up YOUR mind game… give’em the ol’ Kansas City Shuffle. you’ll start winning again.
now a days i punish with rsf… the whole match is a huge set up fro RSF… tho if mind games are working then i stick to that till i find my opening>>RSF
ooo- then stopping your RSF on purpose usually gets you WAY more than going through with more RSFs… like FA>RSFx2> STOP – this usually draws out a DP or ultra which i can reset the RSF for more damage or ultra or combo or more mind games… people hate it. lol… ok im done- this prolly goes in the RSF feed- sorry if i went off topic. Tengo mucho amor para Spicy Cooking Time.
Thanks street11 for clearing the airborne frames up, I know now that chunli is airborne but as you said not high enough to use guac on. Is Cammy also considered airborne? I am not sure.
One thing I tired, if you have good reaction time, you can actually punish dashing with ultra, I am not sure if it applies to all characters because some seem to be faster than others in recovery, but I clearly remember landing it on Ryu a couple of times when they dashed, but if I do it just slightly late, then they will be able to avoid it. Its tricky and almost seems that it requires psychic abilities, but it is possible on reaction I think. I will try and get a chance to look more into this, unless someone already knows and explains how the ultra punish for dashing works.
Yes, backdashing cammy is considered airborne as well even though she doesn’t look like it. You can also air grab them during the backflip motion (or easier way is using Gen with his KKK ultra), or you can simply test by hitting them w/ lp while they’re doing back dash. If they don’t stay on ground when they get hit, they’re considered airborne.
Most backdashes goes like the following:
Some invincibility frames -> Very, very short ground frames (about 1, you can grab w/ akuma’s raging demon during this frame) -> Airborne frames -> Recovery ground frames (still short, but longer than the former ground frame)
So chances are either you grabbed them in recovery frames, or they have shorter airborne frames. I’m going to need clarification about ryu’s backdash frames.
It’s very hard to grab them when they’re spamming backdashes (try record in training mode, spam back key for whole 10 seconds, and playback. You’ll know what i mean)
Back to topic, pure c.HK seems to work surprisingly well, but there are always those who spam anti-air to beat out the slow slide.
I tried recording and playing back with chunli, If I get the right timing I can land the ultra on her while she is spamming backdash (or backdash then jump back), but I missed a lot due to the strict timing.
On topic, Thats why I love EX guac, It has never failed in punishing any kind of jump or even anti-air attack (for those who like to spam it). You name it, it grabs tiger uppers and knees, any kind of srk, even lp srk that seems low can be grabbed with EX guac, it beats EX versions of almost every other anti-air by other characters (not sure if there are exceptions), it beats any kind of airthrow, it cn be used as escape from pressure, it even beats Blanka’s ultra if done in the right time. its such an amazing move, by far one of Fuerte’s best tools. I even like to use it with the wake up games, run back and stop, then EX guac to either punish a wakeup jump or anti air. It also recovers fairly quickly (but its not safe, it can be punished if someone sees it coming), so if they choose to backdash then even if you miss your EX guac you can most likely recover before they have a chance to punish.
EX guac is, imo, almost ultimate and beats anything that involves jumping within it’s attack range. Not sure if it can beat seth’s EX dp if both moves are done at exactly the same time. (You are unlikely going to do this anyways)
SHK wiki also told me that ryu’s backdash has much longer ground recovery frames than chun’s. That would explain why it’s easier with ryus. (I also realized this thing was actually on topic lol)
Anyways, I don’t have any more suggestions left to answer the topic question aside from the already mentioned ones & nearly-useless ones that I’m going to self test with (such as FA airborne chun -> lk guac test). Hope there are no issues with backdash now xD
If they keep backdashing on wake-up, corpse hop and do whatever.
Use Quesadilla Bomb, as simple as that.
EX guac does NOT beat EX Headstomp (from dictator).
It depends when you do it. If you do psychic EX guac (meaning right before he does EX headstomp or almost at the same time) then he will win. However, if you do it after he does, you will either escape through it or even catch him if you do the timing well. Try it in training, I just did and I caught EX headstomp with EX guac several times cleanly without a trade.
Something on that note, if you want an easier way to beat EX headstomp without even wasting EX meter, just jump and hk! If you jump in place (without right or left direction) Fuerte’s hk in air (aka his ass) beats all headstomps (EX and none) cleanly. If you do it a bit late you might trade however.
use ur far standing round house ( so underrated ). or run stop > jumping fierce