Dead or Alive 6 - Discussion


#282

Well, it’s no secret that Virtua Fighter was the inspiration for DOA. Holds are effective, but players will tell you to block until you get familiar with characters’ strings.
There’s a free version of DOA5 you can download on xbone and ps4.


#283

and there is a “free” steam/pc version


#284


#285


#286

Apparently, they’re trying to fix that with 6, with a buffed side-step and strings that track (and re-track) less.

The comparison with parry and holds (in neutral) is pretty apt, as they do enforce that same kind of guessing game that 3rd Strike parries try to cultivate.

Holds in stun on the other hand make the combo game play more like KI. However, this element has been somewhat more controversial than KI’s Combo Breakers, despite generally running on the same principles, mostly due to how Itagaki mishandled them in the later installments he handled.

The big misconception is that you can hold out of hit stun in general. However, there are a lot of hit states where you can’t hold out of. This includes natural combos, 2-in-1s, launches, and wall hits (except in 4). In fact, the main stun state where holding happens is Critical State, which is the extended stagger stun. So, the combo game revolves around the fact that the attacking player will want to put their opponent in an unholdable state. However, this usually means putting them in Critical State since this opens up more launchers. So it usually becomes guessing game of whether the attacker is going for a launcher (mid), or will try something else in anticipation of the mid hold. Also, the 4-way hold system from 4 onwards means that players will also have to guess between 2 kinds of mid launchers, punch and kick.

The above still applies, which explains why certain characters (including certain VF characters in 5) are top tier. Look at Christie who can hit you with fast normals, using strings that branch into natural mix ups, on top of her other mixups, including JAK shenanigans.

That said, hold (on top of having less safe strings) does affect the pressure game is played, since holding against unsafe strings is now a consideration. Also, as a quirk of how DOA handles having both a block button and back to block, you can attack while holding down the block button, which actually does change the feel of the game compared to other games with block buttons like VF, SC, or even MK.

But really, the thing that likely sets is apart from VF is the combo system. Despite having holds in stun, or perhaps because they exist, the most recent versions of the game have had numerous ways to really extend combos. 6 now even adds an FADC/RC type mechanic into the mix with Break Blow Cancels (BBC) where there’s a short window to cancel out of the first hit of a Break Blow that resets an opponent into the ground in Fatal Stun (can’t hold out), allowing for an extended combo with a relaunch, at the cost of all your meter.


#287

Good coverage @d3v .

In addition, on the comment by @Naeras about “a lot of stuff in DoA is negative on hit”. This generally only revolves around normal hits that don’t cause critical stuns. Generally these are no worse than -5. While I can’t speak for Team NINJA, a plausible reason for this is that it’s a move that’s meant to be used when you expect a counter hit. Typically after a frame trap or after you’ve guarded your opponent’s string. I would think they feel if the opponent is doing nothing then you should use a Throw instead. These attacks that have disadvantage on normal hit generally cause very deep and/or unholdable critical stuns on counter or hi-counter hit.

The disadvantage on guard/hit also helps incentivize a player to delay their string extensions while they’re guarded. Unlike VF and Tekken, DOA tends to have a much wider input window to extend strings. This can cause a feeling of ‘psuedo’ advantage due to pressure relating to is the player going to finish the string or not. This is further heightened for some characters that have multiple string extensions and mix-ups in one string.


Side Topic: Berzerk runs the Australian competitive scenes and events. He recently had a fighting game event called Couch Warriors the same weekend as NEC19. Through his contacts he was able to get a copy of the DOAFESTIVAL 2019 demo build of DOA6 for those in attendance at CW.

There was a minor exhibition here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/349310736?t=1h05m25s

Additionally, since he still had access to the build after the event he went about recording some things before shipping the demo back to Koei-Tecmo:

Hitomi Bound Combo and Launch Height Differences with BBx (Break Blow Cancel):

Fuzzy Guarding with Diego:

Bass’ new Hit Throw combo:


#288

#289

The wall splat changes are interesting. It seems that there are two types now, one that is the old DOA5 wall splat that leads to limited juggle damage, and another that puts the opponent back on their feet, allowing a hold, but also opening them up to a relaunch.


#290

Network beta test on PS4 goes live in about 10 hours.


#291

Requires PS+ sadly, I won’t subscribe just for a beta since I’m mostly playing JRPGs lately. It looks so colorful compared to 5 lol

New trailer showing Nyotengu and Phase 4 https://twitter.com/doatec_official/status/1083664818085728260?s=21


#292

Can’t you just make a new account and get those 48 hours of free online play or something?


#293

Godsgarden streaming DoA6

Question: how common are neutral hit launchers in this game? I see a bunch of super easy whiffpunishes where the other guy just lets the whiff go, or punishes with jabs. Might just be inexperience?


#294

#295

so…whats your experience so far? :coffee:


#296

A lot of moves that can launch only do so when the opponent is in critical stun. So it’s better to go into a string that puts your opponent in it, then get the launch.


#297

Any normal hit launchers don’t give enough of a launch to juggle into anything, they’re more of a knockdown than a launcher. If the attack does launch on normal hit, it’s generally around the 20 frame startup mark. In contrast, most attacks in the game are +4 to -15 on Block.

It’s about throw punishment over attack punishment. Also, landing an attack during someone’s attack’s recovery frames (say if they whiffed the attack) will still be normal hit. It’s counter hit only if an attack collides in the startup and active frame window.


#298

#299

“The character roster was selected based on where we were going with the story and narrative, rather than the popularity of the characters,” said Shimbori via Gematsu. “So I’d like to remind everyone that Rachel and Momiji are characters from Ninja Gaiden which, although from the same company, are from a different franchise.”

They are playing with fire!


#300

That’s not only the dumbest thing they could have done, but considering that Marie Rose and Honoka are in the game, also probably a straight lie.


#301

Not super into to DoA lore but isn’t implied that Honoka is Raidou’s daughter? If so hopefully her mother was a willing participant in her creation unlike Ayane’s.