Dealing with Haygar Maytag and Tron Flambe assists


#1

Alright…so last tournament I went to I got blown up by Haggar assist again. Dealing with 2 characters that can swing around these block with your face assists can be a real problem. Tired of trying to deal with it just by lame and wanna see what everyone can or has come up with for dealing with these assists so we can do even a few more things than watch the assists rip free offense for the opponent all day.

After the last tournament I went to I was advised to simply snap Haggar in and just burn whatever the fuck I can to get him off the screen once I land something. This presents a similar issue to dealing with Phoenix where you basically have to have a really good mix up on a landing Haggar or they’re just going to abuse the power of raw tag to get away. Now the thing that’s different from Haggar over Phoenix is that Haggar can’t simply fly away from your welcome mix up and has to come to the ground. He could mash on lariat on your offense but if you bait it you could defintiely mash c.L and do whatever you need to get him out of there.

To list the general pros and cons I know about both assists.

Haggar

Pros: 60 dumb ass frames of invincibility,

untouchable before he enters the screen (very rare attribute for assists),

hits on both sides towards the top which stops a lot of coin drop/left right mix ups,

his big health gives him a bit more of a threshold for not dying should he actually get caught up in something,

forces every character in the game to crouch at close range to avoid blocking or getting hit by the assist (bigger characters like Doom, Sent, Hulk have no choice but to block this assist even when crouching unless it is no where near them)

using certain crouching normals (like Dante’s c.M) will make your vulnerable hit box large enough
to get hit by the lariat,

if assist hits the opponent the scaling is very minimal and gives you a lifetime to land a combo for no real strategic reason at all,(probably the best asset of this assist, block with your face get free impossible to drop combos on hit)

forces you to block low or mash on c.L for a ridiculously long time just to maybe hit him or survive damage from the opponent’s offense


Cons: Short but definite period of recovery after the 60 frames are up,

can be crouched under by most of the cast,

anyone who can crouch under it also has a c.L they can mash to stay safe from the hit box of the assist,

loses about 6 percent health everytime the assist is called.

Tron

Pros: Untouchable before she enters the play field (very rare attribute for assists),

upon activation releases a ball of fire that covers most of the front of her body that goes a solid distance,

if the assist is called at a perfect time during a projectile (the first 5 frames) it will automatically cancel any low or medium priority projectile (afterwards still has 10 low priority durability points),

very short almost impossible to hit reliably recovery period if the fire whiffs,

big health gives her a bit more of a threshold for not dying should she get hit

doesn’t lose health for repeated use unlike Haggar


**Cons: **Can be beat during active frames by certain low attacks from a distance (She Hulk c.L, Task c.M),

can be beat by other low attacks with very small vulnerable boxes even at point blank range (Wolverine c.L, X23 c.H),

is not actually invincible once active unlike Haggar which allows you to hit her in the back with a teleport/dive kick or use a special/super with long invincibility like dante’s hammer or captain america’s hyper stars and stripes to hit the assist and make it take hefty damage,

negative 6 on block allowing characters with fast L or M normals to punish on block,

not as much time to confirm combo as Haggar assist if it hits the opponent

With that I’d like to jot down what people are doing strategy wise against both assists so we can come up with stuff and not just watch the assists fly all over the place whenever someone is using them. Character specific, general shit, whatever.


#2

I think I’m going to start snapping Haggar in because he’s annoying as fuck, especially since I use Tron.


#3

You know you can completely duck under Haggars lariat. Just expect your opponent to spam it as they try to rush you down and punish his big burly ass.

People get blown up in this game because they have no patience. If they arent hitting you with instant overhead mixups just crouch block Haggar and blow his ass away every chance you get.


#4

Just found out She-Hulk can get around Haggar with H Command Grab.


#5

If they’re using one of these assists in combination with Dante, good luck with that shit. It kinda shuts a lot of characters down completely, since not everyone has tools to punish those assists. The only answer I could come up with is predict when they’re going to call it and punish it with a projectile super, x-factor, then another super.

I still unsure of how to fight the assists myself though. Haggar isn’t nearly the problem Tron is for me though. I hate that bullshit assist more than X-factor Dark Phoenix.


#6

i use spencer so i usually just dash forward they mash hagger or tron i dash back barney arm dhc into devil trigger then i Million Carats xx S xx Vortex xx j.S and thats a dead assist


#7

Hard to punish She Hulk ramming air throw/j.H option select on your ass while Haggar is out. By that time she’s in command grab range.

For now I would say one thing that I like to use against either assist is what Fanatiq was doing against Richard N during their money match. **Just abuse the shit out of throws on the point character because throws are the only thing that allow you to play offensively even though an assist may be coming out. ** If your character can land damage off a throw then even better. If you’re fighting against Haggar assist it might not be bad to just constantly throw and get Haggar to burn some health off and apply damage considering your character can get damage off the throw. X23 specifically has a command grab that she can get combos off of that dont scale as hard as standard throws and can meaty out standing/crouching attacks. Has a little bit of trouble against Haggar lariat once it’s out but decent at seeping through Tron fire calls.


#8

One thing about the cons portion for Tron, it scales your combo really hard. I don’t know the amounts for other characters, but for Wesker and Taskmaster’s BnB’s is about a loss of 200k right off the top, though hitstun seems mostly if not at all affected.


#9

Hey Deviljin, is your team still X-23/Doom/Wesker?

Don’t be afraid to back off and run away for a long time. Bait an assist call, back off, and try to land a hit on the point character before they can use the assist again. The biggest weakness of these
teams is that once the two point characters die, they’re left with a pretty terrible anchor. You can use X-factor a lot more leniently because of this. You can just blow X-factor to kill the point char or the second char, whichever you don’t want to fight. If you really want to ensure your win I’d save X-factor for the second character.
Once they’re left with their anchor, just block a lot and superjump away.

I know setups to blow up Tron with Wesker, but you have to land a combo first and let them mash the assist as they get up.

Haggar I usually try to bait a call and just start chaining low. With Wesker at least, you won’t get hit by Haggar if you’re chaining 2A2B2C. Only chain into launcher if you’re actually hitting Haggar. of course, how effective this is is gonna depend on the character you’re fighting…Dante can obviously be doing airdash crossups while you think about this

I play Wesker/Iron-Man/Akuma so if I stall and build some meter I can usually DHC into beams and kill Haggar. He’s out there for a really long time.


#10

its hard as fuck to play against those assists, but it turns mvc3 into less derp or more think so i like them.

if you have a team setup for it (lots of beam/long range supers) you can THC on reaction to either assist wiffing and STRAIGHT OUT KILL them. this isnt guaranteed cause if the opponent is smart they can let go of there controller and divide the damage between assist and point. but with one of my teams (ironman,storm,sent) ANY assist that is called gets killed if the point character blocked.

this is also a good counter because thc activation is instant for the most part, not needing a qcf command first which increases response time for actually punishing tron.

its not an all day counter but is DEFINITELY good to know if your team has the makeup for it. also is good just for doing quick damage even if you dont have 4 levels cause of the nice instant thc activation.

happy hunting

-dime


#11

Zero gets the full crouching ABC series without getting hit by Haggar. Zero needs to stay away and punish them with lv. 3 buster into Genmu Zero.


#12

I’m actually using Dante/X23/Doom now. Wanted a character that would compliment X23’s cheap ass level 3 better and Dante was the ticket. Plus he’s a more technical character execution/mix up wise which fits my play style more.

With Dante I could always just turn on Devil Trigger and blow up Haggar/Tron with some lazers. I dont really mind Tron assist much with Dante because hammer or teleport blows her up nice since she’s never actually invincible once she lands on the screen. X23 can do fine against Tron assist also because she has normals that either go under the fire, punish it on block or her collection of dives moves can easily cross it up. The main problem is Haggar assist because Haggar’s invincibility lasts 45 frames longer than the invincibility of Hammer. When X23 has to get out there and Haggar assist is still in it’s just mad lame because without a projectile or beam super to lame out with you’re just going to be eating that shit all day once they close the gap. Doom can’t crouch under Haggar assist so that doesn’t help.

Next time against Haggar assist I’m just going to base my style more around grabs and snapping him in.


#13

Snapping him in and abusing throws is the main way to deal with Haggar. Crouching is all good and all, but the point character is not a training dummy. You can and will get bodied by IAD crossups and command grabs if you just crouch and stare waiting for the mayor to finish spinning.

If your yomi is good/you’re feeling yourself, you can go for backdash beam super/thc. Works well against both Tron and Haggar, but once again, point character isn’t training dummy. If it’s someone like Dante or Magneto or Zero or anyone with an invincible hyper sitting on meter, damn straight they’re gonna cover their assists.

The main thing about these assists is that they force a shift in momentum the moment they’re out there. And god knows how much you don’t wanna be blocking in this game. Even worse is that if you don’t respect them, you’re a dead man if the guy in front knows his combos.


#14

funny, cause i have more trouble against tron than haggar. haggar = dash in crouch block then punish. tron that shit doesnt work out so well cause you just get put in blockstun> mixup. plus tron recovers so damn fast. and is available damn near the instant she leaves the screen. if i had it to do i would increase the cooldown on both of those assists. right now if people wiff the assist they just run away for a second and then its already cooled off… i dont like that.

-dime


#15

So…would what I said earlier still stand?

That you have to be patient? Or are we going to talk about how impossible it is “against She Hulk option select” rotfl. You guys make so many excuses.


#16

neutral jump to bait assist then go in


#17

Being patient against She Hulk + Haggar or Tron assist will only get you so far. You gotta do something eventually. This isn’t SF. Shit will happen when your gap is closed everytime if you dont have something to counteract immediately.

I like the neutral jump to bait assist. Probably works better against Tron than Haggar unless the Haggar call was hella pre emptive.


#18

I didnt say be a wallflower for 99 seconds, I said be patient. Obviously Haggars assist is only good for stopping you, so if you’re already stopped then they are going to be more careful by calling it out.

Honzo already explained what to do. Bait assist and punish assist.


#19

My main problem with the haggar/tron assist is when they are used in conjunction with certain types of rushdown/pressure. My main problem lies with combinations like Magneto/Haggar or Dormammu/Tron.

If I can bait them out to use it, I try to punish with a super. My team is especially good for this (chris/spencer/sent). Sentinel is hands down one of the best assist killers in the game if not the best. A simple HSF x-factor into HSF is good enough to kill anyone almost. Same with spencer, as a Bionic Lancer x-factor into bionic arm is really powerful.


#20

What are the chances of you catching a good players assist in a HSF xx HSF? I thought you meant assist killer as in hyper armor lol.