Dealing with people who mash 3 frame jabs?


#1

So I’m 6 months into SF4: AE 2012, my first serious fighting game. I constantly find myself against people who will mash 3 frame jabs in every situation: wake up, during my block strings, just general gameplay and I’m unsure of what to do. Sometimes they just mash DP during my block strings, and sometimes I recover, but they’re too far for me to do a viable punish (ex. ken light punch shoryu). It seems like shotos have a get out of jail free card and I find this frustrating to deal with, especially since I play a character who has no 3 frame normals so I can’t exactly trade with these mashers, or its usually in their favor. Do frame traps help this situation? Because sometimes I still get interrupted or maybe Reversal DP’ed or SPD’ed through my frametraps/ blockstrings. Is that just because I mistimed it?

I use Juri


#2

Ken LP Shoryu is -20 or something and very easily punisheable
Frametraps beat 3f Jabs/Shorts as long as they’re executed properly (gap of 1-2 frames, 3f gap usually means it’ll trade in your favour)
Frametraps lose to DP mashing because DPs are invincible, however you can just do nothing (eg c.LK,s.LK,c.LK, BLOCK) and then punish the mashed DP
You can’t be mashed “through” blockstrings - it’s not a true blockstring then.

For more specific advice on which frametraps to use when, character specific boards (or at least tell which char you’re using)

Also from the way you sound, it doesn’t really matter that you don’t have a 3f Jab;
If you call Kens LP Shoryu unpunisheable, they might as well be mashing an 8f Sweep.


#3

What character do you use? That’s pretty relevant to the conversation.


#4

The reason why I say its “unpunishable” is because I try the block strings and then block like you suggested, but it pushes me to far to do a punish. my farthest reaching normal has start up 7 frames, but that doesn’t count that it has to reach the target so I usually end up being really late on the punish, or getting hit by another DP.
Good to know that frame traps don’t work on some reversals
will defintely look into frame traps more


#5

Your block strings aren’t safe if your getting dp’d out of them, its your lack of timing and landing them right. If their mashing lights why don’t you just cross them up, if their so predictable. Lol
or use an ex move with invincibility.


#6

Frametraps get beat or at the very best trade in the opponents favour against pretty much all useable reversals.

The very very basic triangle is that after you did two normals, you can either Throw, Frametrap, or Block,
and your opponent can either Block, Reversal, or Crouchtech. Which to use depends on what your opponents do -

Blockstring>Throw | Wins against: Blocking | Loses against: Crouchtech, Reversals
Blockstring>Frametrap | Wins against: Crouchtech | Loses against: Blocking, Reversals
Blockstring>Block | Wins against: Reversals | Loses against: Blocking, Crouchtech

Ofc there are more options for both guys (eg he can also backdash), but this is the most basic outlook.

Actually the start up IS reaching the target?! Shoryus recover so slow that you can “walk forward > punish”, btw.

Tell me your character, I’m 100% sure that punishing LP Shoryu isn’t even close to an issue.


#7

Maybe this is the case. I’m not sure if I’m linking my combos correctly. I believe I saw a combo tutorial that was in one of the stickies and it said to link combos and not chain them, but this causes me to have those gaps. is it still possible to chain normals into a special? Or do i still have to link combos into a special? Or is it a mix of both? I consider myself still relatively new to this game, so I am unsure.

Oh didn’t know that. I thought there were more frames after the start up frame. Also tested out the shoryu recovery and found out that it was more punishable than I thought. I think its just the ONLINE FACTOR that gets to me and the input lag when it comes to online… urgh. I play Juri

Thanks for the quick replies, really appreciated.


#8

wake up mash is the new shit

deal with it


#9

You misunderstood that completely. You can only cancel normals into specials when they’ve been linked into, not when chained or whatelse. This is still a combo, so your opponents can’t mash out of it. For more information, read this.

Your highest damage punish (meterless) is [c.HP xx h.Pinwheel] - this however will usually not hit if your opponent isn’t at point blank. [c.MK xx h.Pinwheel] however has a very long range and is no issue at all to punish with. Also if you have it, raw Ultra2 always works.


#10

Mashing jabs on wakeup? Bait out wakeup jabs or shoryu, backdash then [c.mk xx EX pinwheel]


#11

blaming input lag is the easy way out, but lp DP is very easy to punish, you just have to react. abels c.hp is 8 frames start up and i punish lp dps all day with it. also the word you want is cancelling. cancels and links into specials is fine. you can only chain into other normals, not specials.


#12

Ok, if you are new and using Juri stop trying to do block strings because none of her special moves are safe enough with the exception of an already stored fireball, but if you already have a fireball stored you are not using lk or mk which are her best pokes. Juri is mostly a keepaway/zoning charter with incredible normals esp her mk which can hit confirm into a combo from very far away. At most do 1-2 crouching low kicks into the lk pinwheel. While still not safe there is enough pushback to make it harder to punish, and since most people expect u are using mk or hk pinwheel that can give you an extra second to block. If your into doing blockstrings pick Ryu, which you should learn Ryu becasue you will learn how to fight against Ryu, Ryu will be in every Camcpm fighting game ever so you can always play good day one, and Ryu is a good counterpick to some of Juri’s bad matchups.


#13

Store is -1 on block?!

The rest of the post is even more confusing, I’m not really into answering.


#14

good point, forgot about store :slight_smile:


#15

Vulpes is spot-on in this thread, listen carefully to everything he says and anything I’d have to say about the neutral(ish) game would be redundant or too advanced. As far as people mashing jabs on their wakeup, you can just imagine it is a blockstring situation where you have extreme advantage… assuming they’re not mashing against your aerial mixup attempts, first I’ll commend you for not just jumping around every time you get that knockdown like most other new players. But if you’re getting beat by mashing lights on their wakeup, you’re just doing something stupid – going for some sort of offense without it being safe at all. If they’re waking up and you’re on the ground, you should be doing one of two basic things: A: something that is safe against every reversal option they have, or B: something that will beat out every normal option they have. If you’re picking option A (blocking just out of throw range, backdashing, something like jump back HK against gief, although idk if that works with juri) then make sure it’s safe, and if you’re picking option B (throw, meaty normal, empty jump low) make sure it’s done right. Notice that none of these perfectly sensible options loses to mashed lights on wakeup.

You’re only gonna get hit on THEIR wakeup if you tried to do one of those things and picked the wrong one, which is part of the game and gonna happen so you just live and learn and get better at yomi… or if you tried to do one of those things and fucked up. Make sure it’s never the second one by going into training mode, recording mash DP and practicing beating that on wakeup, and then recording mash c.lk and beating that on wakeup. Get so damn good at beating both of those WHEN YOU KNOW WHAT’S COMING that you stop missing it, and then it’s just a matter of guessing which one you think they’re gonna do. Yeah, there are other options… but just ignore them for now until you get the basics down.