Dealing with Vega's shenanigans


#1

Okay, this may sound really scrubby but I can’t find a way to counter Vega’s wall jump into air grab/overhead attack.

It’s hard to DP it because the opponent can control Vega’s falling trajectory. Trying to jump out of the way will result in getting air grabbed most of the time.
When I block high to block overhead, he grabs me. I’ve tried focusing the overhead, which works but then he’ll opt for a grab.

Either way it’s annoying to deal with and its happening repeatedly.

How do I deal with this? I play Ryu.


#2

Mash jab.


#3

c.hp


#4

It’s easy. You don’t have to jump or anything. Easiest way is to simply crHP, it’s really easy to beat wall dives because they’re ridiculously vulnerable below Vega and it’s a super slow move.

Another way is to dash out. If he goes for throw, he’ll miss and whiff slash instead and you’ll be safe dashing out of the way.

If you want to punish, dash away then Focus Armor soak the slash when he misses throw and hit him.

Now that he’s trained that you’ll dash out of the way, charge Focus when he gets close because he’ll expect dash and change his trajectory to throw and then whiff a slash because you didn’t dash, which you then release Focus and hit him.

You don’t need to jump or DP at all.


#5

Seriously? I lost 4-0 to my friend cuz he kept hitting me with that damn wall jump -> grab/slash.

Will record Vega and try what you guys have suggested… hopefully I’ll be the one winning 4-0 next time :smiley:


#6

Ah dude it’s ridiculously easy, wall dive sucks in that game lol. I think the only time you can throw loop with wall dive is against large characters like Sagat but Ryu or E.Ryu (especially) can just crouch HP when he gets close. Try it out in training, record Vega going to the wall and trying to throw you and practice this. Timing an anti-air like crouching HP is soooo easy. You don’t even have to really try.

No high level Vega will be using wall dive. It’s too weak. The only time you’ll really see it in use is when they hit confirm with crouching MP and cancel to EX wall dive.


#7

If you think the sf4 walldive is difficult you should play super turbo claw lol.


#8

Since you’re playing Ryu just give em a shoryuken. If he’s really stupid, try to catch him with a Metsu Shoryuken when he does the wall dive. You give him a counter hit Ultra to the chin and he will likely lay off of that move for a bit.


#9

DP is a bit ehh because depending on how he changes direction, more often I whiff DP by DP’ing on the wrong side.

Tried out the cr. HP, works nicely. Also found with the right timing a jumping HP actually beats out the grab/slash.

Too bad there’s no big punish I can do against it, would be cool if jumping f. MP beat out the move and I could use my ultra.


#10

there is a SF4 specfic trick, when someone is in the air like that just wiggle the stick back and forth between downback and down forward then hit the punch button when you want it to come out


#11

Just focus it, dash forward and combo or throw. Most good vegas only do that move in combos.


#12

I think it may be possible to jump back (instant) HK so long as it’s done early in Vega’s flight. I don’t know if he can still grab you for it.


#13

1st post in ryu forum in the match up thread.

2nd Like I always post, the way to beat wall dive is a combination of things.

I’ll go over the properties and how to abuse each property of wall jump.

Most importantly, it’s extremely punishable on wiff. If ever a wall dive is used and they end up on the other side of the screen, pump out an ultra, super, ex or regular hadodken before they land…

You can block it if you know how they will try to hit or if you know they won’t (can’t) perform the throw. If you block it, you can at least punish with walk up sweep, but you should be able walk up do whatever you want…

Next, wall dive does not attack automatically. You don’t have to worry about your proximity setting off the attack so remember to AA the move in different ways to mess up your opponent’s timing. Sometimes you can jump towards vega and try to surprise him with an air to air, other times you can do an air to ground like cr. fierce or dp, other times you can try to low profile under the attack with cr. forward kick then wiff punish and finally you can pretend to position for a ground to air attack and perform a jump back fierce to attack the position your opponent would need to be at in order to beat your ground to air attack. Each way to attack vega forces him to attack you at different times and positions in his wall jump, making it difficult for him to target and hit you.

The hit box for the move is very horizontal. If vega attacks early aiming for your head, you’ll be able to crouch it most of the time. If he does it late to hit you low, you can jump over. The grab is like a marvel grab where you only press one attack button and if you are close enough the attack will come out as a grab frame one. Beating the hitbox and grab means that you want to be very mobile while aiming to hit with very vertical attacks. Being mobile makes it difficult to space for the grab while vertical attacks force vega to come at you with a sweeping motion. That makes his flight pattern predictable to the point where you can plan your non-conventional anti-airs like neutral jumping short kick air to air or even neutral jump roundhouse.

The attack is not a focus breaker. The attack won’t break focus unless vega is so close a grab comes out, he’s glowing yellow (because it hits twice or you see a super flash when he is on the wall (because it hits three times). As soon as he jumps off the wall, you can threaten with focus. Regardless of which side he lands on, after he hits you, just dash towards vega and perform and full ground punish. Vega can counter your focus by attempting to throw you. If you see him spacing for a throw, you can dash back or forward and do what you like. You can air to air, ground to air, fake a ground to air and counter with a retreating instant air to ground attack or you can focus again.

Wall jump’s air control is not perfect. Vega moves fast away from the wall he jump from, but slowly towards it. This means that if vega wants to mix you up by being directly over you, more than likely he will go from front to back and not back to front since the air control will be better that way. Also, if vega is directly over you, walk towards the wall he jumped from and he’ll have a hard time crossing you up. That will mess with vega enough that you should be able to mess with their timing pretty hard. I like to walk forward into cross under and then jump the same direction I was walking so that I can instant air attack the vega that is chasing me down. Either way, just know that a vega will probably only be able to cross you up once, so they will hover, in front of you until they are close enough to attack. Crossing you up from a far high angle can be a little problematic at first, until you realize the they have to move in either a certain space or wiff which you can then force to happen by timing a neutral jump and then punish. This also means that when you focus a wall dive and vega adjusts his position, you can dash behind vega to make it difficult for vega to continue chasing you.

Wall dive is not invincible, you can crouch to make your hit box as small as possible and dp it when you get attacked.

Punishes that damage:
jump towards strong punch land ultra 1
any wiff (if vega tried to stay away, accidentally wiffs or you force it with crouch forward kick) gets raw ultra or super
focus absorb dash towards close standing fierce punch into fierce dp
focus absorb dash towards close standing forward kick to ex hadoken link ultra
focus absorb dash towards close standing fierce punch into light dp fadc ultra
dp fadc ultra
high anti air jab dp link ultra

As usual, this isn’t everything, but you should have a good idea on how to handle wall dive now. Go lab it up.


#14

I always focus attack. I release if they land in front and dash away if they land behind.