Deep Jump-in->Ultra


#1

A lot of characters can combo ultra off a deep jump-in HP or HK (more for some chars), but you don’t really see this used often. Every now and then in japanese match videos, you see someone do this, but i don’t really see it used outside of that. You would think you would see this more against fireball characters when the opponent anticipates a fireball. Is it that not many people know that this works?

Obviously you can’t just jump-in all day or base your strategy on “jump in HP->ultra” but from time to time in matches you get an opportunity to jump-in for free. Still, you almost never see this.


#2

What are you asking? Why you don’t see it more often?

I had a Cammy do this to me when I did a real dumb fireball. I think the timing is tricky enough and a lot of characters have much more dependable ways to do damage and your opponent has to fuck up pretty heavy for you to be able to pull it off. Its not every day that you get to land a super deep heavy jump in, and EVEN THEN for a lot of characters the timing is really tight, and the last thing you want to do is whiff an ultra right in front of your opponent’s face after landing a juicy jump in.

I mean, a lot of characters can do 350 or 400 damage off a clean jump in thats not deep, and you’re not always going to be perfect - why bother trying something like that if you’re not playing a character thats really good at it (like Cammy I guess). If I landed that with Ken, for example, I’d just rather go for Roundhouse -> EX Shoryu/RH Hurricane which is like 400 damage and a lot more dependable and I still have an ultra if that matters, and I don’t have to worry about how deep my jump in was.


#3

The biggest problem is that you can’t hit confirm into the Ultra, and the timing can be awkward even if you know the jump-in will hit.


#4

The reason I bring this up is because i was just messing around with this in training mode with Rufus and Ryu, and as long as your jump-in hits deep, the timing in not tricky whatsoever. Very reliable.


#5

There are three reasons why you’ll rarely ever see a deep jump-in to super.

  1. You can’t hit confirm into Ultra. Why do such a dangerous move that’ll likely fail, when you can do other set-ups that’ll guarantee a hit?

  2. Nobody gets hit from a deep jump-in. The opponent either does his anti-air, or just block. I mean really, I don’t think any decent player would fall for it.

  3. Habit. If there was an opening for a guarantee jump-in attack, the Rufus would likely just do the dive kick lk>HK>Ultra because they know its safe and effective. Same thing goes with Ryu, who will likely do jump-in HP>Shoryuken>Focus Dash>Ultra, and any other characters you’ve playtested.


#6

Very hard to confirm. Also for the most part, if you get a jump in, you’re better off doing a fat jump-in combo and saving your Ultra for another situation.

Take Ryu for example. You get a j.HP in, mine as well finish with c.HP xx HP Shoryu, 328 damage. With this, you build meter to as well as conserving your Ultra to open up more options for the remainder of the round. -100 damage is definitely worth being more of a threat for the rest of the match unless you calculate that a jump-in HP to ultra will kill them.


#7

Yep. You would only be able to do this in a punish/dizzy situation, in which case it’s likely a safer bet to straight up ultra or do a better combo.


#8

So far, I only really do this to scrub Zangiefs. If the punk is spinning lariats out I know crane j.fierce beats that every time… free j.fierce -> super -> ultra


#9

You don’t see this too often because you get more damage doing a few more hits into the Ultra. For instance with Ryu you can do this, but it is about 498 damage. Now compare that with something like a j.HK > c.HP > Ex-Hurricane > Ultra for about 639. Or even just something like j.HK > SRK > FADC > Ultra you get around 578.

So in short it is a waste of an opportunity.


#10

For Gen, crane j.fierce -> mantis super -> ultra is our biggest damage combo actually. Just depends on the character I guess.


#11

Well in that case you are using a super and then an Ultra. That is a slightly different matter.


#12

Yes, but even alongside other super -> ultra combos, that one shines the brightest in damage. In this game, less is often more. If we add hits, we do less damage.

Aiming for a jump-in into super and ultra isn’t generally wise, I’m just saying the damage itself is actually pretty grand.


#13

So long as the starting attacks aren’t moves like LK or LP then the damage reduction is rarely an issue until about the 5th or 6th hit. So hit confirming combos tend to be the problem area, but ironically these tend to be the easiest to land consistently.

Over at the Akuma board we have just been messing around with theoretical combos and have found 2 bar combos that land for close to 500.


#14

I use it often. With Ryu and Sagat works wonders.


#15

as a sagat player, hit confirming is my biggest gripe. I have about 1000000000000 other ways to land ultra 100% free, no need to risk it. Plus, like others said, if you land the jump in, you get a free combo. You can switch up to a bread and butter for your character into ultra at that point anyway. Or, just land a combo for massive damage, get the health lead and save that ultra for when you have the bars to cancel or use it in a different way.

Reason being even if you could land let’s say a semi charged ultra without using meter cuz of a jump in, you’re gonna do damage, but not the full potential. It really depends on your health, the timer, and your opponents bars and his health as well. Landing that ultra earlier in the match guarantees that your opponent will now have ultra, and some free ex meter and you will have no ultra left at that point. That ends up limiting your options making you easier to read.

If you can land a serious damage combo anyway and the ultra wasn’t going to end the match, you can do that as well depending on your character. Consider when you have ultra with certain guys, your opponent might have to change the way they play in your favor anyway, then once you get the safety of those 2 bars for cancel you are an even bigger threat, regardless if you even need to land the ultra or not, people who mind meter will notice your safety bars and play differently. The more options you eliminate the easier it is to read your opponent and punish them accordingly…

but to sum it all up, it doesn’t really matter, do what works for you. There’s no right or wrong answer


#16

God bless FADC into another far.HK. It’s 509 against Ryu, Sagat and Seth.


#17

Why risk it, when you can find some other way to land your ultra?


#18

Even if I knew I could land the ultra, I would probably go for a solid combo instead, unless I KNEW that the ultra would win the round and that I could survive the punish if it whiffs.

The threat of ultra for many characters (especially my girl Chun) is often better than landing the damn thing.

For chun, ultra = NO shoto fireballs or you eat it. Guile gets to jab boom for free still, but I have other stuff to deal with him.

Having that mental advantage of taking fireballs away from shotos is more valuable to me than landing the damage from the ultra.

Just a thought on why you might not see this too often.


#19

this!

and it is true for soooo many members of the cast, even if you don’t have a ultra like chun or abels that pretty much shuts down fireballs, if your a char that can combo into it you best believe that is in the back of your opponents mind when he’s planning his assault, and he will prolly be more timid/carefull with his approach because of it, particularily if you have 2 bars and a ultra… that’s just a psychological advantage that you can’t really put a price on.


#20

More examples:

Rose: If I have ultra, you can’t fireball me within her range, and you can’t jump at me unless its super safe. You also cannot afford to whiff anything.

Cammy: If I have ultra, you can’t fireball me from anything closer than 3/4 screen.