Defeating Down Back

So, I’m asking this in all seriousness because it’s always been a serious challenge for me in this game and I’m wondering how other people have learned to deal with it using their various characters.

It seems like choosing to walk backwards the entire match / sit on down back and OS delayed throw tech / throw out safe pokes and wait for the time out or someone to get impatient is an extremely effective tactic in this game. It’s nothing new, I know, but seriously, what are some solutions people have found to beating this?

Particularly it seems like Rog, Dictator, Chun, Guile, Blanka, Honda, and a few others can do this flawlessly. I know there’s the solution of “pick a fireball character and turtle back” but is there really no better solution to the problem? That’s terrible if the game degenerates into fight fire with fire.

Anyway, no dumb responses like play a better game, that’s pretty obvious. I’m really trying to figure this out.

Chip damage and overheads? Crossups?

We could help you better if you told us who you play. Also, you might find better answers in your corresponding character’s matchup section.

Yeah but I’m just curious how people have personally learned to deal with it.

I play Fei though. Overhead / Chip works sometimes but they’re both punishable by certain characters / lose to some pokes so it’s difficult to rely on just that.

Don’t forget playing Chicken with focus attacks. The threat of eating an unblockable is always a fun way to get people to move.

And, command grabs. And, crouch tech baits. And delayed throw attempts.

If the character is throwing pokes, dance around sweep range and whiff punish the pokes. Alternatively, you can focus attack them. Fei has a fast dash. It’s a bit risky, but it seems like sometimes you can just dash in and throw or command throw.

But I don’t really know your guy, so again, this question might be better asked here:

Dude, Fei is a corner pressure beast. Just chill out at jab rekka range and poke with rekkas, cMK, cFP, fMK, whatever. If they jump, flame kicks. You can use the chiken wing to keep them pinned as well.

Plus, focus all day.

Tech traps all day.

Yeah tech traps work sometimes but you do run the risk of getting random invincible move-ed. Plus you have to get in range to tech trap so if they’re zoning you out it’s difficult.

I guess I shoulda specified high level turtles, since I do fine vs regular turtles. It’s the people who REALLY have their zoning and defense game down that give me trouble. Focus attack doesn’t work very well on most people since you can simply back dash to avoid it. Plus vs say… Guile, if he has down back he can just flash kick the focus on reaction, same goes with any rekkas blocked at any point (I think the overhead as well), so cracking that can is really risky.

It seems like most of the characters that can do this stuff also have really good walk speed so you really have to overextend yourself to get inside. I guess I should focus on getting them in the corner but that’s not always easy, especially when characters like Bison who have EX moves that make it really difficult to contain them there.

Yeah. I’ve been playing Fei long and he is ridiculous when it comes to pressure. If you want I could show you a replay or two of me just pressuring someone badly. I’m not a beast or anything but with fei, constant in your face tactics such as cross ups to big blockstrings like cr. short x2, jab, cr. jab, rekkas (1-3), forward mk to stop them from DB. use your flame kick when you can cancel it. If you hit, free chickenwing, if they block, go into blockstring, overhead, or grab em. A character that literally sits there such as Rog or Honda, Fei Long can be a nightmare. He is a rushdown character, so use that!

It’s simple. It’s a really good strategy because the game is easy. It’s easy to force mistakes out of people because the game is simplified to where people should be able to execute and see things easily. What I mean by that, is that if you’re not anti airing a jump, especially if you have a DP, you’re fucking up. Whereas a game like cvs2 there’s low jumps in which they can punish pokes more efficiently and so on.

So it comes down to who has the life lead. You don’t really need to move forward, if you’re gonna win by staying there. Until you get cornered, you have the advantage of whiff punishing by staying back. They can stay back and try to whiff punish, too. But in the end they’re gonna need to stay in poke range to try and bait something out from you. On that note, don’t get back thrown or combo’d. If that happens, they get to start up the spacing game all over again and it’ll take so much time off the clock trying to corner them again.

edit : I don’t agree with some of the tactics given to counter turtling earlier. Walk up…you can’t do that. Someone with good footsies won’t let you move freely in that zone. Jump? lol, yeah, experiment with that then post back.

Yeah I mean I know how to play Fei. I’ve won tournaments with him in the past, Emblem Lord can vouch for me being decent. I’ve just really struggled with the life lead turtling shit because it seems like there is no way around it. Get the first hit, then sit back and let the match come to you!

video of me vs a good Honda: Shoryuken - Gamefrog SSF4 Grand Final - Slick Rick(HO) vs xSamuraiX(Fei)

Yeah I pretty much agree here. I was hoping it wasn’t so simple though and maybe I was just missing something.

was just playing Rufus today on ranked (getting him to C) encountered lots of turtling…you’re at an obvious disadvantage, outright chasing people is not a good idea & much less jumping at them. footsies is what worked for me, if you jump it better be when they are in the air too or doing something else, but once you get in you better tare into that ass

Rufus is definitely a challenge to play
kinda funny too that Fei was the only character that could manage to push me to the corner, i really couldn’t find anything to do to him with Rufus

honda is the bane of my existence

Blanka, Bison, Honda, and Balrog tend to own me. Is it just me or are these chars more popular in this game than they ever were before in previous installments in the series? I see them an awful lot these days.

I know this has been said a thousand times but this game is just too defensive. This is just the way SSFIV is.

Man thats just how SSIV is, it’s a very defensive game. It’s not Marvel vs. Capcom. I think a lot of new generation fighting game players are spoiled by games like Blaz Blue, Guilty Gear, Marvel vs Capcom and Tekken type games. When they come to SSFIV they start to dis it and say the game is cheap because it’s mostly about defensive stratagies where going on the offensive tends to be more risky because you don’t have the defensive options like you do in those other games like air blocks, defensive counters ect. It’s such a bare bones fighter with a shiny new coat of paint, you just have to take it for what it’s for.

I also think thats why people prefer 3rd Strike over SFIV too because with parry you can take more risk going on the offensive if you read your opponent right. Street Fighter lives up to the phrase Easy to learn Hard to master.

I can’t wait for SSFIV to hit the arcades so we can see how the Japanese handle this bullshit, because it doesn’t look like anyone else knows how to :lol:

it’s not that sf4 is so defensive, it’s that sf4 players have NO idea how to effectively attack in a street fighter game without jumping.

you beat “turtles” with superior footsies and maximum capitalization of mistakes, if you will notice in the highest level at this game people generally aren’t just sitting in the corner waiting for the other character to make a move.

you have to develop an offense, which is a lot more abstract than “anti air jumps and mash reversal when they get close”. some characters are better at it than others. you have to learn to know when to take risks and how to effectively make your opponent “ancy”

Japan will be 80% honda maybe