Define "respect" and "disrespect"


#1

Hi.
I wanted to know what “respecting” a player, and “disrespecting” them in a game is.
For example when I watched the Mike Ross VS Daigo (EVO) Video, they said that Daigo was disrespecting Mike.

Also, while playing, one of my friends told me that I was respecting my opponent too much, which caused me to lose the game.

Long story short, I want to know what “respect” and “disrespect” is in a game like AE, and I want aim to be more “disrespectful”.


#2

Anytime you do something that shows disregard for your opponents skills can be called disrespectful. Trying to be a disrespectful player though requires some skill if you intend to win. You need to be able to read people well enough to know when you can start flagrantly disregarding their ability to punish things.

That’s just my understanding of it. I’ve been called a disrespectful player too many times. Either way I wouldn’t say its a good idea to build your playstyle around being disrespectful.


#3

Could you provide an example please?


#4

Simplest example is wakeup shoryu everytime you get knocked down. Shows that you don’t respect your opponents ability to bait and punish.

Obviously this only works when people are actually incapable of punishing it, or when they never learn and attack you on your wakeup everytime.


#5

Ah, so would backing off on a knocked-down opponent be considered respecting the wakeup shoryu?


#6

Theres no such thing as respect / disrespect. Its just a game - your reading too much into it.

If a tactic works then keep doing it, change and adapt only if they do.


#7

Yes, that’s a perfect example. Don’t read too much into it. It’s a term used mostly by commentators and spectators to basically evaluate the abilities of both players. If a player consistently uses tactics that only works on bad players against someone who is good, that’s usually deemed to be ‘disrespectful.’ If a player holds some of their cards because they know their opponent knows how to stop a shenanigan, that’s usually ‘respectful’.

Example:
Your opponent is half screen away with a super/ultra that can go through fireballs. What do you do?

Keep throwing fireballs willy-nilly:
This would be considered disrespectful because you’re not ‘respecting’ the fact that your opponent may have the reflexes to super through your fireball.

Stop throwing fireballs:
This would be respectful because you’re anticipating that your opponent has good enough reflexes to get through.

What it really boils down to is how well you can read your opponent’s skill. You need to adjust to what the player can and cannot do. If you keep throwing fireballs against a player that has proven themselves capable of going through them on reaction, then that’s a bad idea. Similarly, if you stop throwing fireballs even though you know that your opponent is completely incapable of getting through them, that’s also a bad idea.


#8

the best example i can give u is floe vs kazunoko canada cup teams winners finals. the 1st match kazunoko showed floe’s knock down game zero respect. he did wake up dp’s everytime he got knocked down or a situation was reset and still won the game. FloE got pissed and felt that he respected kazunoko too much and demanded a rematch in the Grand Finals. When he got it, he returned the favour and showed Kazunoko zero respect. He too woke up with reversals etc… and guess what? he beat kazunoko! i dont advice you to play like that though if youre still learning the game.


#9

actually there is. this is a common term in combat sports or competition, whether team based or 1 v 1. Competitive gaming is no different. your post was a very good one, but sometimes terms like these are very important for Coaches/analysers(like his friend) who use the word when giving feed back/instructions on performances.


#10

Another important thing to remember in this space is that, for a lot of situations, it’s to your advantage to require people to “make you” respect their options. To stick with the wakeup DP option, this means applying pressure on wakeup until they DP you a time or two in order to show that they are willing to “make you” respect their DP on wakeup.

When someone tells you that you are respecting your opponent too much, it means you are, essentially, giving them too much credit for being good. You’re not doing things that you could be doing (like applying pressure on wakeup) because you think your opponent is going to beat them with whatever tactic, so you play really “safe” and as a result, your opponent can basically do WTFEver he wants, and ends up rolling you because he DOESN’T have to respect your options because you’re too respectful to use them.


#11

The way i understand it (at least from a mvc/sf4 perspective) is that if your playing respectfully that means that you are playing what i can best describe as safely.

A good example would be if i was playing mvc i had two bars and i knew that if i went all in did a combo and burned both bars it would NOT kill the enemy character but would get them really low, but i did it anyway, this is playing disrespectfully, i am putting myself in a largely disadvantageous spot (o meter and no confirmed kill) and my opponent could easily make a comeback (especially in mvc).
If i had the same set up but decided to do one combo put them at half then do another combo and finish them off for sure thats playing respectfully. I don’t put myself in a disadvantageous spot by burning all my meter but at the same time i am not doing as much damage in one combo.
Sometimes a characters style would determine what style you play, like frank west for example is a very disrespectful character because you give up a lot of meter/combos in order to lvl frank rather than killing your opponent, but playing respectfully is generally the better idea.


#12

Pretty much boils down to this. Now some players may just full-time play an extremely safe style(and I guess vice-versa, some people just play recklessly all the time but you’d typically consider them as bad at the game), but most people will try to take liberties and show off a bit if they feel they’re greatly outclassing the competition and tighten up defensively when they think there’s a chance they’re going to eat a large punish if they mess around.


#13

respect: when you limit your options due to the opponent being able to punish you for doing shit(safejumping someone as opposed to just jumping in for example, or not pressuring on wake up)
Disrespect: knowing the above and just doing it anyway because you don’t think they’ll be able to react


#14

Thanks everyone for the responses!
So from what I have learned, “disrespecting” a player is like disregarding their skill and doing risky things? (generally)


#15

It’s no so much doing risky things by disregarding their skill, but by ignoring the options they have (see the ultra that can go through fireballs example)


#16

Pretty much Etiquette. Don’t flaunt around or mash SRK, Doing that pretty much says “I dont regard you or think you can beat me, so I’m going to dick around” It costs games. Just play to win every time and know what your opponent can do, Don’t take into account skill level, just dont do it.


#17

I wouldn’t say never do it. In my experience theres a time and a place to be disrespectful to your opponent. Against certain players it can provoke them into doing very risky things too.


#18

Respect is acknowledging your opponents skill and toolset so you you don’t do things that they could punish with those skills or toolset.
Disrespect is the opposite, i.e. doing things that you shouldn’t do because you SHOULD be punished, but you believe your opponent won’t due to you being in there head, or just not thinking they are a good player.

Knowing when to be respectful or not is the best skill to have. There IS a time for respect and there IS a time for disrespect, depending on your opponent. Anyone who says don’t do ‘disrespectful’ or to the guy above me ‘things without etiquette’ is 99% of the time not good at fighting games in general.


#19

Let’s say you’re fighting a Ryu.

You’re giving too much respect for doing the following:
[LIST]
[]never jumping over their fireballs
[
]never trying to mix them up on wake up in fear of getting hit by SRK
[]not trying to play footsies with Ryu because he’s really good at it
[
]not trying to reversal against Ryu because his DP can beat yours
[]not using best possible punish combos possible because you fear of messing up and getting SRK’d
[
]not teching grabs because you respect DP FADC Ultra too much
[/LIST]
Basically you’re assuming your opponent is going guess right, or play flawlessly without knowing. Giving “the benefit of the doubt” to your opponent and second guessing yourself is a common thing. Download then apply.

Giving too little respect is the opposite
[LIST]
[]always jumping in or over fireballs (maybe because no anti air or , not using a good anti air and want to challenge them)
[
]always going for that mix up on wake up
[]Trying to out play a character in their own field (Dan trying to /succeeding in out zoning a Ryu)
[
]Instead of going for a practical max damage combo you use a combo that’s scaled as hell, because you know you’ll win anyway. (look at Marn’s Dudley)
[*]This last one is common. Stand grabbing people out of blockstrings, or tick throwing because they never tech/crouch tech
[/LIST]

Hope this helped.


#20

I hate to nitpick here, but sayin “you’re giving too much respect” implies that all those things are bad ideas, which you can’t just generalize to any Ryu player. Sometimes its a good idea to not play to your opponents strengths, and not playing footsies against Ryu is a good example of that. I’ll agree that all those things show lots of fear of the Ryu player though, and fear rarely makes you a stronger player.