Demon Flip Mixups

akuma

#1

I’ve been thinking a while that we need some advanced demon flip discussion in here, and the vid thread finally got me to start it.

The demon flip really gives you lots of options. The kick should be your main tool, since its the safest. With this, you can late cancel to try to combo, early cancel to stuff potential counters, or go for the cross up. If you are close enough, you have the throw option, which works really well against tall characters. To keep the kicks unexpected, you have either the slide kick, or an empty demon flip, which I generally follow up with a throw, or I sometimes just go straight into another demon flip. Anyway, lets talk about setups.

fp juggle into demon flip

This is either an air tatsu juggle into fp, or bnb ending in fp instead of srk. This attack string can really put pressure on the opponent, and is a good tool against characters without uppercuts. You won’t ever be in range for the throw with this one.

just a standing normal into demon flip

You see JR use these a lot. This is your primary way of connecting the throw, which I use nearly as much as the kick, sometimes more than the kick depending on the opponent.

meaty demon flip

I don’t use this often, but its a good setup because you stand a better chance against uppercuts, and have really great combo potential.

air fb, land, demon flip

This is a setup I’ve been experimenting with against makoto mainly. You don’t have to worry so much about a dash under or anything.

Ok, so you’re in the flip…now what?

Like I said, the kick is your main option, so lets talk about that. Its tempting to always late cancel the flip so you can combo. The first thing you learn in Mixup 101 is always doing one thing in a situation = death, so you have to early cancel this thing too. Once people start getting knocked by the early cancel, they wont be so tempted to try to AA you everytime, or parry, and an early cancel kick can lead to RD setups or kara throws or more flips. Its a good sign if they just start blocking the kicks, because you are getting close to locking them down, and you have them unprepared for throws. The blocked kicks should be followed up pretty much the same way as an early cancel kick. Either land, normal > demon flip, kara throws, or if you can, an RD. I also like going for the f+mp overhead after blocked or early canceled kicks.

You also have the cross up kick. I’m just starting to use this thing, but its really great because its ambigous. What sucks though is you really need to know what situations it will cross people up on. Most of the time, a cl.mk > mk flip, and early cancel the kick will lead to a crossup. If anyone can give some insight on crossups with demon flips that would be great.

Unlike the dive kick, after a parried flip kick, you land at the same speed, so you should be able to go right into demon. Other than that, don’t get parried. I also will throw out rh and mk tatsus after parried flip kicks from time to time.

Time to start using the throw. Not much to know here, except make sure you are putting yourself in range for this. You really need to be right on top of them. So you are either do c.mk > mk flip, cl.mk > lk flip, cl.fp > mk flip. Just know your ranges because whiffing this thing is a free combo for your opponent :tdown: On characters like Q, if you go for a psuedo meaty flip, and just go for the throw right away, there is relatively nothing they can do to counter it.

The slide kick really allows the normal kicks and throws to work well. I follow up my fp juggles with this one a lot! Although, once you get this thing blocked or parried, its time to hold off on it for a while, because you have pretty bad recovery on this one. I very rarely dont land this one, but you do need to be very careful with it.

Lastly, there is the empty flips, and like I said, you should mostly go for kara throws, because if someone didn’t try to AA you, they are probably blocking.

Don’t really ever use this punch. No real reason. Bad recovery. It sucks.

Hope this is useful :lovin: I don’t want to sound like an expert, because I’m not. I’m still learning the demon flip, but I think its not discussed enough here.

How to Counter different reactions to Demon Flips

Opponent is AAing you out - Early flip kick
Opponent is standing blocking - Slide kick, empty flip throw, flip throw
Opponent is crouching blocking - Flip punch, empty flip throw, flip throw
Opponent is parrying - Vary flip strengths/kick timing (super late cancel works well), empty flip throw, flip throw
Opponent trying to go under flip - Early flip kick


#2

It’s important to know your matchup, too, when considering to use demon flips. While it’s an amazing tool, it’s not always viable, such as against Ken or other characters with decent anti-air. Shoryukens for free if he sees you demon flipping.


#3

Maybe mention the while crouching demon flip?
Messes up some people, they think its a normal jump until the grab or low kick hits them…


#4

I’ve always wondered why a thread like this was never included here in the Akuma strategy section, thanks for taking the initiative for doing this. I just seemed to learn on my own with demon flip setups and tactics and also borrowed some strategy from Japanese players.


#5

From my own experience I’ve seen that demon flips on makato is a bad idea unless you have them on the bad side of the momentum. She can easily stuff your flip and kill you with a combo. Her jump is crazy fast and can easily out prioritize any demon flip strategy so I tend to stay on the ground most of the time and try to zone with fireballs and pokes. Its just too unsafe for me against makato, and the matchup is way too uneven anyways.


#6

I’ve never really do demon flips out of a crouch. You are welcome to elaborate for us!

As for makoto, I do lots of demon flips against her. She doesn’t have great aa to deal with it, so the only thing you should be concerned about is her dashing under. If you are canceling normals into flips though it shouldn’t be a big problem.


#7

crouch demon flips - I love those so much :blush: db,df,db,df + k

Also use it to quickly teleport away while I’m blocking low. I think I did it against Ultrayox when I was blocking his GJ.

One other thing thats good to look out for while flipping - when you’re ready to press kick or punch, look if the opponent is on the defensive i.e. standing still or waiting to block or AA, or if they’re moving forward to walk/dash under. Early cancel the flip and the kick can sometimes push you far away enough from them.

Demon flip on wakeup is a brilliant tool as it puts you in the air (within 1 frame I think) so you can never be combo’d. This leads to interesting mind games because now your opponent will keep his distance from you on wakeup so that he can jump kick you out of the air or something. And when he does that, the ‘wakeup’ pressure is off. Also use it to cancel normal pokes which I think may get parried and punished - works wonders in situations like e.g. I do low forward to Chun. She parries and goes for back fierce SA2. Because I cancelled the low forward into a flip, I get reset by her back fierce, and her super totally whiffs.

If you manage to condition your opponent to look out for flip fakeouts (cancelling to nothing), its incredibly confusing for them if you can start mixing up deep flip kicks at their ‘maximum’ angle. For example, I do a lk flip which I cancel into nothing and that makes me land at, say, just outside kara throw range. If I think the opponent is looking out for this, I’ll cancel the kick at the last possible moment where it’ll just about hit them on the toes. Like a ‘deceptive range’ trick. I’ve seen Jiro do this against the twins a lot.

A little something I stole off Uraken is jump over someone, then flip back onto them and grab. Probably one of my strongest tools during tournaments…


#8

I have sex with st. jab, cr. short x demon flip.

EDIT: Also I like to dive kick towards a downed opponent and shit on them during wakeup. Either a late cancel into ground stuff or a meaty demon flip (as mentioned earlier).


#9

yup crouching demon flips are great

you should also probably mention that doing the low sliding kick off of the demon flip can be relatively safe (maybe completely safe?) if you do it meaty or from a good distance…

oh and maybe mention the demon flip into demon that we were talking about in the other thread


#10

i agree.

BTW, thats some nice info ya got there.


#11

Demon Flip punch is an actual overhead attack… Flip kick can be crouched blocked… Plus it can throw off parry timing if they are trying to parry at the last minute… I can’t remember if you can super cancel off of it though…


#12

actually, demon flip late cancel into cl.mk is good against people who instinctively tech throw after a late cancel.


#13

Another thing that’s REALLY important to note is that many people will try to throw YOU the moment they block a demon flip kick. If you try to go directly into a low hit after the demon flip and your opponent tries to grab you, you WILL get thrown.

If your opponent is making throw attempts, it is best to stuff that throw rather than tech it with an immediate hit from a s.LK, s.MP, or s.FP. It’s important to note that s.MK does not work for this purpose either.

I tested all of this a long time ago when I found the people I played liked to grab me after my demon flip mixups.


#14

This isn’t a big problem for me, but another good option to take care of people looking for a throw would be starting another flip right when you land. According to Naz, you’ve got a 1 frame startup, so that should cleanly beat out a throw attempt, and might even give you a free kick from their throw recovery, but I’m not sure about that.


#15

Added a little blurb about parried flip kicks.


#16

Umm. What? :sweat:

What is a crouching demon flip, and what are the benefits?


#17

That’s a good idea, too. I’ll have to try that next time.


#18

There’s your answer. Just a fake out cuz people think you’re just jumping since they wouldn’t expect a flip out of a crouching stance.


#19

Pherai mentioned using a flip to get out of possible grab situations. Just to let you know, I use that tactic A LOT. I dive kick into someone (be it a flip or normal dive kick) and then go into lk flip and grab them, or just combo if they’re recovering from something. A whiff grab can’t be punished with a combo unfortunately if you use this method.


#20

but you can punish a whiffed grab with the demon kick grab? Nice!
Usually if i happen to do a very high dive kick (where you get grabbed if you try to combo using lows or slow moves) i do an immediate FP.Shoryu or FK.Hurricane which punishes their grab attempt… but that is a little dangerous… i will start using another flip kick… opens up more options and is safer