Devil May Cry 5


#322

It would be nice if they’d put JCs back into the demo. Y’know that core mechanic you created for the franchise Capcom. Now that I think about it I’m not sure if the DMC4 demo had enemy step. But about the Xbox and soon to be multiplat demo; I assume they don’t want us finding all the tech before the game releases because they just know… lol.

Oh damn it did have enemy step. @ 0:30


#323

Every DMC has enemy step, including the reboot. Starting with 4 you have to buy it from the shop. It was missing from the DMC4 demo for example. It’s in 5 just not purchased in the Demo.


#324

I was referring to the Xbox One DMC5 Demo which doesn’t have enemy step even through all builds leading up to the demo release had enemy step meaning they removed it. And… In the DMC4 Demo video I listed above there’s enemy step in the PS3 demo. And if I remember correctly there was also enemy step in the DMC3 Demo. But for some reason it’s not present in DMC5’s demo.


#325

I know it’s missing from the 5 Demo, it isn’t “purchased” yet for the demo. Yea it was removed the previous public builds for the Demo.

I remember DMC4s demo lacking enemy step but I guess I remember wrong.

Yes DMC3 had enemy step, every signle DMC game has enemy step, even DMC1, wasn’t a DMC3 innovation.


#326

I was only talking about the Demos, not the actual finished product. I just found it a bit odd (but at the same time it makes sense) they decided to remove JCs from the DMC5 demo. Only reason for this would be they don’t want people discovering a lot of tech before the game releases, so we’ll just have to settle for the tease.

And who said DMC3 started enemy step, lol? What did I say to make you assume I lack knowledge on Devil May Cry’s gameplay mechanics and make these assumptions, lol?


#327

I didnt say you did or didnt say it, i just filled out the post with relevant info for anyone else reading as well as yourself if you didnt know.

I was simply referring to both demos and finished products.

And yea they probably removed it from the Demo to wither keep people from abusing the tech too early, or to keep the “barrier for entry” low.


#328

Patience is a virtue…


#329

Today is the day…


#330

A lot of people are disappointed about a few changes. Changes that are mostly targeted towards high level players, so casual player wont even care at all. The mains one being the lack of inertia, input lag, slower turning speeds, and Split input bring changed.

Inertia is something that was in a huge part of DMC4 advanced play while not so much in DMC3, but was still present in DMC3 in some form. I’m not sure if it was a mechanic added by the developers or an exploit of the MTFramework engine itself, but what it did was add a ton of depth the game, that game being DMC4.

I’m not sure about the input lag. I believe it and the slower turning speeds have to do with the way the game is animated now. Every movement now has a transition (similar to Metal Gear Rising Revengeace) and because of this it is now harder to pull off reversal moves, and some reversal moves simply don’t function how they used to. DMC3 has this issue with turning speed, too. To compensate we discovered that in DMC3 you can just plink reversal moves. Keep in mind that the game isn’t running on Turbo either and for many people including myself playing the game outside of Turbo mode can feel quite sluggish, giving the illusion that something is wrong.

Me personally, I’m… enjoying what the demo offers. I can understand some of the complaints and supports them (like no inertia), but I think a lot of it is an overreaction. And not wanting to accept “change”.


#331

I never thought inertia added anything terribly meaningful to DMC4 because it has so little influence on the actual combat. Its neat what it can let you do but since you dont need it it doesn’t actually add any depth, just finger gymnastics.

Split just has an input change, people just need to get used to it instead of whining about it.

I get the Turbo thing because i hate the way Turbo feels, im not a fan so i imagine the reverse is true for those who do like it.

What I see a lot of complaints for, and have seen since the system was explained, is how the Breakers work. I like it but a lot people feel they shouldnt break and should be on the fly cycle-able like Dantes styles. I personally hate the idea cuz thats just making him like Dante again.


#332

I agree. Each characters should have their own traits. I’m not interested in Nero being a lesser Dante or 2.0. I’m sure people will adapt to the change to Split’s input after a few plays, I’m more interested in the decision for the change. If anything, it makes doing air reversal much easier.

Back when DMC4SE was coming out the official Capcom twitter made some tweets about the games inertia, it’s usefulness and how it impacts the gameplay. They also went out their way to let people know such a mechanic exist (again I’m still not sure it this is a mechanic actual made by the devs or an engine exploit they later knowledge) by showcasing that inertia was still intact via live demonstrations before the release of DMC4SE. As with the Split input change people are looking for answers.

Also, DMC Timeline is now 3 > 1 > 2 > 4 > 5 Originally it was 3 > 1 > 4 > 2 > and now 5. Again, we need some answers, lol.


#333

See thats strange because during one of DMCVs live events someone asked them about inertia and both Itsuno and Matt looked confused like they didnt know wtf the question meant. They had the same reaction to the Distortion mechanic which to me cements thats its a huge unintended glitch and always has been.

Id be down for Inertia being back if they can find a way to make it actually benefit the game. If its just gonna be another high execution mechanic that in the end really adds nothing then it can stay gone far as im concerned, id rather they not waste time on mechanics like that and spend that time making the enemies in the game worth beating up. The only thing the Demo has me meh on is that the enemies are not agressive at all. Ive got my fingers crossed that its due to the demo being on a low diff setting or something but those weird ant demons never once atracked me even when i stood next to them and did nothing.

That will not fly for me in the final release, these demons better be out for blood at some point in this game.


#334

I wouldn’t worry about the difficulty, they’re always going to go with low setting for demos and the like


#335

I kind of cant help it because DMC3 and 4 still never managed to get to the agression levels i wanted even on DMD mode.


#336

Thats def the thing missing with later DMC games. The enemies in the first DMC were actively trying to kill you and pull out new moves that would fuck you up.

Seems like the enemies in later games (besides bosses) are essentially mobile dummys to practice combos on. In DMC1, a marionette would kill u if u took your eye of the ball for even a second

We need that level of aggression back in DMC5 without deaths being cheap


#337

Ah, well, yeah, true. lol


#338

The demo was made for marketing that’s why if you die the mission restarts from the beginning rather than starting you at the latest checkpoint. I wouldn’t judge the aggressiveness of enemies on this build. And the first mission is a tutorial mission.


#339

Sick…


#340

I still don’t understand the rose tinted glasses of DMC1 enemies being “aggressive” when they just end up being pushover jobbers once you learned to fight them like every enemy in every other DMC and games like them. You also have to remember that these games have evolved a lot in 18 years. There are considerably less enemies on the screen at a time in DMC1 so it makes sense that they are a little more aggressive, and not to mention the combat in DMC1 is considerably less deep than later games. Imagine if the basic and enemies in DMC3 attacked you every half second, given their numbers, while you’re both trying to control them and build up combos. It would probably be more frustrating than fun, so there’s a balance between numbers and aggression, although it really depended on the enemy type (Frosts in DMC4 were pretty aggressive).

I wouldn’t be so quick to judge enemies either, considering the demo is… a demo. It’s a fraction of the game and we’re sure to run into all kinds of enemies later.

PC demo when though. :triumph: :triumph: :triumph:


#341

The combat isn’t less deep in DMC1. What’s less deep is the amount of actions and the combo systems. Combat isn’t not just combos and character mechanics, if it was, then any action game without combos would have “not deep combat” which isn’t true. Combat is a two way street, it’s your characters abilities vs the enemies abilities. It’s a matter of toolsets. Even in fighting games, there are lots of attacks a character has that actually have no value in neutral, and are entirely just combo fodder. When doing combos they are valuable, but in neutral, where the actual combat phase is happening, they have no use. DMC3 is very much like that where it has a lot of moves that are just not useful in neutral but are great in combos. It has moves that are the reverse, and moves that are both. In DMC1 there are very few moves that are for combo maximization compared to how many are useful tools designed to deal with specific combat situations.

As for the enemy design in DMC3, since you can have any mix of weapons with you, the enemies have to be designed to be defeatable no matter what weapons you have. in other words, no matter what tools you use, they should be killable. This means you aren’t really learning a good strategy to beat the enemy, you’re just using whatever you like to beat them since they won’t flip out of combos, or block certain types of attacks(vs being vulnerable to others) etc. Now, because DMC3 is designed with player expression in mind, it’s fine, it works, it’s just not very compelling combat interaction. It’s a ton of fun to play as the player character, but the sheer range of tools necessitates enemy design that is straightforward. This is why everyone hates Blitz’s in DMC4. That kind of enemy(Fausts too) was designed around Nero’s toolset which is way more focused(though even for Nero Blitz design fails IMO). Whereas for Dante to deal with them there’s not really any great answer. Anything kind of works but not amazingly well, or you can just learn distorted Real Impact which just kills everything, but no matter which you are going with you’re not really equipped to deal with a Blitz. You have to do really high level stuff to make short work of Angelo’s, Faust’s, Frosts, etc. with Dante, whereas even a mid-level player with Nero has options to deal with everything they have that are not esoteric high level stuff.

This isn’t just an enemy count issue, and the main reason enemy count in DMC3 went up is because those enemies are design to be killable in any way you please since the design goal is to just let the player do anything they want, rather than to design interesting situations. If the enemies were made in a more interesting way they COULD reduce the enemy count and it would be fine. Granted, the entire game design would have to change at that point and I don’t expect DMC to ever go back to the “actual” combat focused design as it left that behind a long time ago now.

I’m pretty sure Itsuno himself has said that the design philosophy for his DMCs is mechanics based, while Kamiya’s DMC1 and plenty of his other games too, have been, IIRC it was called “situation based.” Designing enemies around creating situations makes for more interesting neutral combat, while the former makes for more interesting punishment combat, to borrow FG terms again.