Dhalsim vs Gen

dhalsim

#1

There’s not a lot of good Gens out there, but the ones I found are whipping the floor with my Dhalsim.

How do you guys handle the Gen matchup? I just cant zone him cause of his speed, focus attack, short jump and high priority wall dives (and that thing setups his Ultra…). The only good thing is Gen is low stamina, then he dies when I connect a good BnB + super, or an Ultra. But I find impossible to fight him in a consistent way. I’m trying to run away like crazy, but this is not working well enough.


#2

Jumping FP while moving back works to stop Gen jump in approaches since his jump puts him in the position to get hit by it easily. Unless he’s jumping, you want to be blocking low most of the time because you really do not want to get juggled into ultra or super -> Ultra which is probably the 2nd worse case scenario next to being against a wall. Wall Dives shouldn’t be too hard to avoid, just don’t try sliding under or against them unless he’s doing the ceiling dive, which you could just slide to avoid the land and punish with fierce. So long as you aren’t juggled, he can’t really do anything too threatening cause most of his set-ups revolve around sending you into the air. Don’t spam your fierces too much though cause you don’t want to miss at the range he can easily punish you. Hope that somewhat helped, this is an uncommon match up :<.


#3

i will admit that it’s a very uncommon matchup…i don’t really play with dhalism and my gen needs work…but for his wall kicks, perhaps u can use your yoga tower to avoid them but don’t count on it…you’ll want to stay on the defensive though in this scenario and try to keep him grounded…otherwise you’ll have problems once he gets in…


#4

Hmmm… I’m doing pretty much that… I dont get hit by wall dives if I dont want to, but I dont want to block that shit. Maybe throw a fireball on reaction? ( I’m talking about the wall dive from his side, the other I use to punish A2A with j. mp). That cant be that free for them, or they will use it all the time to get better positioning or to make me backup into the corner. When I try to hit him out of the air, I eat an Ultra instead.


#5

Just had some player matches today with a good Gen player, though it looked like both of us weren’t entirely knowledgeable of the match-ups. The wall dives are NOT yoga towerable or focus attack absorbale and you will get hit and eat that odd 7 kick air combo thing after getting hit. If you aren’t at point blank when he’s pretty close to you, you can somewhat push him back and get him off of you with b.mk’s and light kicks. You can also zone with mk, which works really well considering the angle Gen jumps at. Knee is actually pretty good for jump ins as well.

If you do happen to get in a corner, don’t panic and block low when he trys to combo you and block those cross-ups. It’s kinda hard because it’s really hard to tell whether he’ll end up behind you or in front of you. As soon as you push him back far enough out of attack range from blocking, drill out of there or teleport out of there if he’s going to jump again. EX yoga blast can work on wake-up only if he’s neutral jumping, but there isn’t too many opportunites for that. Don’t try to Fireball wall dive on reaction cause it’s very likely you aren’t going to hit them, though Ultra is actually pretty good if you time it right cause you may just have enough time to block and even chain with inferno and do roughly maybe 60-75% of his health, or at least trade hits and get away.

This match really comes down to trying to find an opening and knocking him down so that you can pull off some IAT mind-games off him with KKK teleport and PPP teleport (KKK teleport teleports you in front of them, they may try to expect you to teleport behind them in hopes that they can block a cross-over so use both teleports), cause unlike Ryu Gen doesn’t have any wake-up reversals to hit you with.


#6

I main Gen, so I’ll give my input here.

The best thing to keep in mind when playing Gen is that he has no reliable wake-up move, so IAT shenanigans are very good against gen. Even on block there is nothing Gen can do.
Now, if Gen has managed to get you into the corner theres are 2 things he will most likely do:

  1. mk > hands ( his BnB combo that does quite good damage)

or

  1. attempt a crossup (with his cross up kick crane style). This is something you must avoid at all costs, as a decent Gen can combo from his crossup kick into cr.lk and super or ultra.

So when you’re in a corner the best thing to do (imo) would probably do and IAT and when you come behind him in the air press hp. Why? Because even though it might be obvious and Gen might block it, it still helped you get out the corner and you’re pretty much safe on block.

Basically, keep your distance and just block those oga walldives. Mindgames are the key here.


#7

I don’t really know Gen so i forget which style it is, but st.mk and to an extent st.hk flat out whiffs when you do it early to predict a jump.


#8

i think this matchup is a nightmare for sim, a perfect 5/5 but a nightmare. i play asiantom alot and its tough if the gen knows how to play well


#9

I play gen too and this is that i think:

-Back HK is a very good anti-air but you need a bit of reflexes
-S.Mk is better than S.Hk because mk hit gen before he reach the max. jump height, s.Hk will whiff because is slower.
-If you want that gen block your ultra, DONT do it when gen is in the floor, do it when he is in the wake-up animation. Why? Gen can do a ex wall dive, and he is inmune to the ultra with that , so the ultra is useless in this case, but if you do it late, maybe you can catch him doing the move when the ultra animation starts, and its a charge move, so he will lose the charge and he MUST block in this case. Anyway if you use the ultra for wall dives or jumps, gen will eat it.
-If gen uses forward throw, be careful. If he begin the down charge , he will try a Wall dive crossup, this is DEADLY because is a 50/50 that can hit you for 60% hp if he has super, ultra or both. Teleport or slide can be a good solution.

And the most important:

-Learn how to block gen when he is close because is easy for gen get close to dhalsim.


#10

My brother plays a meeeean Gen, so I get a fair amount of practise against him, and some other Gen’s of good skill (even played asiantom from his account)

The thing to remember is against Gen, being a full screen away or maybe 5/6 of the screen is NOT a bad thing at all. You want to give yourself extra time for his jump ins and focus dash forwards. My technique against gen is:

-use S. forward ALOT, mix it up with fake limbs (jabs/shorts)
-ensure you use the fb at long ranges or he will jump you and kick your butt!
-If he uses wall jump consistently, then you get a free win. Simply time your IAT for when he’s about to hit you and whack him with a very meaty combo. Or you can jump back fierce and wait for the jump in/wall jump and again, just teleport out of harms way and give him your best shot.
-Be aware that Gen’s Gekiro IS good on wakeup- and will beat out nearly everything Sim has at close range, bar a throw or EX/super. So if you are going to cross him up on wake up then ensure your fireball is hitting him first, or the Gekiro will nail you on teleport.
-If things are getting cramped, and he’s jumping in on you- use light slide-> throw/b.forward -> YF xx super to teach him not to do that!

It is vitally important you keep your distance in this match. To me, it feels very much like the Bison match- keep him at range and dont panic if he headstomps/DR’s in on you. The matchup is a definate 5/5, and is one of the best examlples of a 5/5 out there.

Besides…you gotta have respect for any Gen’s out there…not an easy character to play, so they get what they deserve when they pull off a painful combo.


#11

iirc, gekiro has no invul at all, so as long as you time your close range attacks meaty you should beat it every time.

(gekiro is the shoryuken kicks, right?)


#12

Correct- but just because it has no invulns, it doesnt mean it wont hit you- its due to being a funny kind of special move, once 1 hit connects from the move, then you get placed in its clutches. Don’t forget, things like EX-psycho crusher/scissors can get thrown, jabbed, etc on startup- but the actuality of you timing it precisely on a consistant basis is slim…and the risk for what? A RH? A fierce/forward xx flame? Maybe if you could pull off the move perfectly against all kinds of Gen players and had your super to combo into then it would be worth it- other than that, just stick to keeping out of range. It makes no sense to be up close and personal with Gen when he has excellent close combat abilities.


#13

I’m not advising to take the game close to him, just pointing out that since gekiro has no invul it actually isn’t as good a reversal as you make it out to be.


#14

I never said it’s god like- simply that “it IS good on wake up (against sim)” because the move is unique…for example, if it whiffs and you block the initial hit, he can delay a 2nd kick that can catch you, or he can feint the 2nd kick and land -> throw (to which you must tech). Yes, you can ex- blast him, but its just not worth it.

Again, im not saying its EX srk, nor am I saying its EX- TU…but against sim, it isn’t far off as a viable wake up reversal. This is an irrelvant line of discussion anyway, as my original point still stands and is most significant…DON’T get up close and personal with Gen after scoring a knockdown. Use the time to get into position to setup the zoning game again- no point hitting him with anything meaty, its a worthless risk.


#15

far meaties are still a good idea tough


#16

gekiro is both better and worse than you think it is. It actually has 4 frames invinicibility, but 7 frames start up lol. No throw invincibility.


#17

So you would have to time it to land in those last 3 frames, and be activating your move in accordance to Gekiro on wake up. Sound like too much work to you too?

You could use far meatys, no doubt in that, but I still think you’re better off FB/ IAT cross up. Also, not sure, but if you trade with limbs, do you get sucked into Gekiro?

Also- Raww, where did you find out the frame data on invisibilities? I would quite like to know what moves are and what moves aren’t.

Cheers


#18

I only know gen’s invincibility frame data, all thanks to yeb: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=181763

Gekiro trade doesn’t suck it in because it traded lol. I think you mean if i hit your limbs with gekiro, in which case it doesn’t suck you in. But you’re probably not going to be seeing a lot of gekiro in this matchup, its super situational on the ground and i don’t really see myself AAing Dhalsim with it much lol.

I’m a gen player btw so if anybody wants to play to get some exp go ahead and add me on psn. I need dhalsim exp so we’ll be helping each other out :wgrin:.


#19

Ahhh right, didn’t think there was any invinsibilty frame data graphs/charts/tables- which sucks, as I’d love to know the details on certain moves.

Gekiro isn’t as bad as you think- it just wont be used very often against a half decent sim, because a half decent sim wont be knocking you down and leaning over you lol. So you wont be using the move. If a Sim was trying to throw you on wake up, or throw out a slide, jab, or whatever, then gekiro would be useful- saves an EX wasted on onga (wall jump, however its spelt)

I’d add you raww, if only you were on xbox! haha


#20

Throw beats gekiro though lol. I’d probably never oga out against dhalsim, not too scared of his vortex lol.