You need to be patient in this match. At least more patient than the Sagat. Your fast pokes may not do too much damage to him, but at that range he isn’t going to do much damage to you either, as long as you’re good at dancing around tiger shots.
if they try tiger kneeing or FADCing closer to you, then you should start using some fireballs before he reaches half screen (EX will force them to either jump or block). MK is actually decent since it makes him harder for him to jump towards you. Make use of your other pokes too (HK and MK can catch him when he’s in the air and when he’s about to come off the ground sometimes), but don’t poke tiger knee or tiger uppercut. lk’s are good too like other people said if they’re focus attack happy.Sagat will being getting a health nerf at the very least and a weaker tiger uppercut so this probably won’t be as up-hill of a match-up as it is now.
Anti Airs vs Sagat
Knowing which Anti-Air is good vs Sagat it’s necessary to zone him and win the match.
In training mode I’ve tested all of them, here’s a description of the best ones:
b.hk: the best option vs a close Sagat. It counters any jump attemp. Great damage (110). The range is limited. Sagat could bait with an empty jump and punish with TU / Ultra.
b.mp: like b.hk it works good vs close Sagat, but it has less range and damage (70). Nice vs lk crossup. I prefer b.hk though.
c.mp: it works as tripguard at medium distance. If Sagat does any jump attack you’ll beat him with 50 dmg. He could do empty jump and 1) block or 2) punish with a ground TU. Not recommended.
s.hk: it should use only at long distance and ONLY if you predict a Sagat jump. Done when Sagat is at the maximum height, it beats everything with great damage (90), and probably counterhit (113). Great against empty jumps. Should be use with thrift 'cause if done late is easily beatable. The best far AA option.
s.mk: great antiair I didn’t know! It works at medium/long distance and it could lose/trade only vs j.hk. If done like s.hk (Sagat at maximum height) should at most trade (of course in Sagat’s favour). Normally wins and It comes fast: this means you should use on reaction. Great against empty jump, his damage is decent (60), but a lot of times counterhits (75). Done too late means be counterhit. Needs training.
It loses against neutral j.mk
Thanks for the tips gore.
What do you normally do when he jump towards you and does that elbow in mid-air? This move seems to be hard to counter.
b. rh beats elbow if timed right, try it out in training mode
also something no one has mentioned is getting out of tiger knee frame traps
good sagats will get in and start doing short short tiger knee -> jab short tiger knee etc etc
you need to anticipate when he is going to throw the tiger knee out and slide under it and either grab or teleport out. Though sometimes instead of throwing a tk he could do ex ts and you end up sliding into it. Also if sagat is focusing from about half screen away, time a b. mk so if he dashes forward he’ll get hit by it.
This is all very true- but honestly…if a Sagat can back you into a corner and start the short TK trap then you will be very lucky to get out alive and win that round. We really must rely on keeping him where we want him, an stopping him getting us into that bad position.
I would not suggest anti-airing Sagat, simply because if he trades, he wins- and if it doesn’t trade its GG. If you beat him clean…then he’s still up close and personal- so I would suggest teleporting/backdashing or sliding his jump ins (depending on the siruation and where you are in respect to the arena).
Watch Iyo and Sanchez vids, they show you how you have to play a Sagat (its all about mixing it up and not being predictable with your answers to Sagats questions)
Sim gets out of the short TK trap for free with all well-timed short slide. You should hope you’re playing a Sagat who tries that on you.
Unfortunately, that isn’t true. Reference the final of DreamHack:
Fast forward to about 46 minutes and 12 seconds in- then traps are starting there, and you can see how light slide is an epic fail. This is true because Sagats that know the trap, don’t simply spam lk.TK, they mix it up with throws, shorts, TU -> FADC (if blocked) into more shorts with TK.
You can mash slide, but with no ability to option select a slide, then you are just playing a very risky gamblers game my friend. If he hit confirms your slide with a cr.short then expect a very nasty combo come your way!
I wish it was 100% garenteed and free lol.
Yeah you really just have to learn to tech well and wait till there’s a break to throw out b.lk xx fire, or the b.lk to b.mk fake link. Once they’re at that range it’s a lot easier to handle.
I can’t comment on the youtube vid, as it’s blocked here. But, I never said mash. Hit short slide on reaction when you hear tiger. I do it often enough and my execution is far from gdlk.
Maybe rh tk will beat that, but… I escape corner pressure often enough. My biggest problem with the match up is doing retarded shit in fireball wars.
stupid double post
Keldrom, you definitely can slide under tiger knees and it can be done more or less reactionary.
regarding the DH-matches, I wasn’t aware of it then so Ryan Hart was able to tiger knee the hell out of me, so those vids aren’t the best reference.
Yeah, I know you can slide under TK’s lol, I never said you can’t lol. My point was based on Starcades “you get out for free with slide” and how you do not get out easily.
There is another vid I will try and find of Arturo vs Sanfords sagat, and the same occurs- he gets one slide into super off, but other than that, he eats TK pressure in the corner, and he discusses how difficult it is to escape that pressure.
P.S. Nice sim man, sucks that you arent on xbox, would love to have some friendlies!
Your original post merely said “short tiger knee trap.” Locally, that’s the typical short, short, short tk trap. Sim, does indeed, get out of that for free. And certainly not by mashing.
Mixups in the corner are a different matter entirely. Maybe the Brits mean something different by tk trap.
It wouldn’t be a “trap” if it was predictable in the form of 3 shorts followed by a tk.
The term trap in this context, nearly always refers to a mixup of shorts and tiger shots/tiger knees, to maintain pressure. I don’t think I have ever seen/heard of a set piece that is followed to the letter (in the corner) by Sagat at higher levels of play. If you can back Sim into the corner, you have some element of skill as a Sagat- you probably wont want to sacrifice that hard work by throwing out 3 shorts and a tk…just a thought though…
it’s like talking to a brick wall with long arms
You play bad sagats, or lose quickly enough that corner traps don’t happen. 3 c.lk puts him at a good space to hit the second hit of the tk only, putting him at a great advantage, of which he can do a shit ton since sim doesn’t have a dp fadc or 3-frame jabs. Is this seriously the first time you’ve heard of this?
lol “the term trap.” Thx Webster
Sim can slide under TK with a fair amount of ease.
That said Sagat has a nearly infinite amount of variations in close range pressure game due to having TK, low short leaving him at +3, natural counter hit strings, easy tick throw set-ups, an overhead and strings that can lead into TS/TK. So it’s not like Sim gets out of pressure FREE. It’s a very hard situation for Sim to deal with.
That’s pretty much what I said. I never said it was HARD to slide under TK, I said its not FREE to get out of the corner pressure/tk trap. The word FREE used in that context slightly aggrevated me, as it is not free (free being 100% success rate, easy get out, like a free BnB on a whiffed heavy SRK).
And Konkrete, whilst I don’t play pro’s like LI Joe and Sanford, I do play skilled Sagats, and it isn’t the first time I have heard the phrase or experienced the technique.
Webster?..Wow…I lol’d… (…where the hell is the sarcasm emote???)
reading is hard I guess
a light tk trap is a frame trap ending in a light tk, which sim gets out of for free (in the corner). I stand by my comment: you should hope a Sagat does that. That’s the easiest way out of the corner.
Other mix ups are other mix ups. Other mix ups also aren’t called light tk trap, as they aren’t a light tk trap.
It’s not hard to understand really.
It’s like, if someone said “god, I hate it when people cross me up in the corner” to which I replied “you should hope they do, you get out of the corner for free then,” followed by you saying “but, they might not cross you up! it’s not free!” Well, then they’re not crossing you up, are they?