Dimes Chun-Li journal

chun-li

#1

So I don’t know if this would be allowed in this forum, but in skullheart the skullgirls forum they have a forum for training diaries. That’s what this thread will be if it’s allowed to stay open. Just a place to put most of my random thoughts and matchup advice and “tech” discoveries. I will treat the first post like an info dump/tutorial/character guide. Mainly uses for chuns normals and advice on meter strategies etc etc. so here goes. This will be a constant work in progress. If there are any question about anything I say in here then feel free to ask me here. Otherwise I could simply keep an offline journal that I write in.

Normals first since that seems like a logical place to start this.

Cr.lp

3 frame party starter good as a lead in for tick throws and instant air lightning legs. Good as a lead in for basically any button you want to throw out. Doubles as the first attack in chuns bnb, can be wiffed to appear to be doing something when you actually aren’t.
Also a good stagger string to do walking jabs to pressure the opponent into sticking out moves. On defense it will usually counter hit and can CH link into cr.mk xx MK SBK into oki pressure.

Cr.mp

FANTASTIC normal to do many things:

Beat other moves because it is low profile
Go low to hit people that are standing
Go underneath fireballs
Cancel into v trigger to do most of these things safely and give a combo on hit.

An absolutely stellar normal

Cr.hp

Very important combo filler, can be canceled into lk legs and then link into cr.lp for a combo.

St.lp

1 frame slower and not as powerful as cr.lp but does 10 more damage than cr.lp which is a good way to increase bnb damage.

St.mp

THE go to upclose button. Has frame advantage on hit or block, can link or confirm into a variety of moves.

St.hp

Chuns go to max damage ranged poke. It’s very safe on block from max range at only -3. Hitting the opponent with 2 of these in a row does bnb damage which is why I like to do 2 in a row most of the time. It really can get in people’s heads especially if both hits connect.
This move can be confirmed into super and is in my opinion chuns most powerful one hit confirm… It’s pretty easy to do witha good amount of practice, has massive range, and is a huge stop sign for characters approaching chun once she has super.

This move is also stellar as a v trigger cancel

St.lk

The GOD anti air. Beats most jumpins that are midranged or far, sets up cross under mixups on air hit (hint) the crossunder isn’t that great of a mixup, but what it’s good for is making sure that you don’t get reversaled as much as you are going for your mixup since you opponent will be more occupied with blocking in the correct direction.

St.mk

A poke that is outclassed by chuns other pokes in most ways… It doesn’t really have the best attribute in anything. Fmp almost completely outclasses it and does what st.mk is supposed to do, but better.

St.hk

A slightly under appreciated normal, the best use u can find is that it clean counters things like rogs dash punches when done preemptively, and CCs them at that.

Cr.lk

Chuns other 3 frame normal, and yet another stellar normal. It can be chained into itself and can be canceled into chuns light attacks.
It’s a staple of chuns high/low game as well as her low/throw game.

Cr.mk

A great poke but generally outclassed by chuns other pokes. It does have the caveat of being cancelable though and can be a lower damage crouch check against stand blockers/people that like to back away from chun after blocking her upclose attacks.

Cr.hk

A good sweep, unsafe on block like all sweeps but has good range and is a good countersweep when blocking another one. When this CCs it’s a good setup for chuns high/low mixup of jumpin stompx3 which is 3 high attacks or you can mixup with empty jump into cr.lk for a 3 frame low. This a very guilty gear style of high low okizeme mixup and is very good no matter which version you hit with.

This move is also a great way to pop v trigger as it gives alot of frame advantage on block, allowing for a mixup, or gives chun the aforementioned mixup on hit, both of which combo into super for massive damage.

**V trigger pop strategies
**

When and how you pop your v trigger isn’t just a question of should you or should you not do it, it’s a question of how your opponent is playing and what matchup you are playing:

Cr.mp

As a v trigger pop this is GREAT on hit especially from upclose. However it is +0 on block and chuns immediate cr.lp will trade with any other 3 frame attack that is input next. So, this move isn’t the greatest v pop on block. Use cr.mp as a way to get under fireballs, or to hit the opponent low, or as a way to outprioritize button happy players. If your opponent isn’t easily leaving themselves open for cr.mp though, then it’s better to go for one of the folling v pops.

St.hp

Probably the best v pop there is as far as utility is concerned. It sucks Chun towards the opposing character on hit or block and gives huge frame advantage no matter what. This is the button to use if you think your opponent will block, but has a slight chance of getting hit.

Fmp

The exact same as st.hp except fmp is faster, has less advantage on hit and block and has less range. Use it for times when st.hp would be to close or would be a great danger to wiff.

Cr.hk

A HIGHLY underused v pop for Chun. Gives great advantage on hit and block. Has high priority like cr.mp but does more damage from far without meter and gives a setup on hit. Almost as good as st.hp pop except this doesn’t vacuum like st.hp though it is much faster than st.hp which along with its range, damage on hit, advantage on block and medium attack startup speed, and oki setups, makes it a VERY good v trigger pop.

Now of course a warning here, any v pop that is blocked is likely to be v reversaled as that’s a good use of meter, but that doesn’t mean that going for blocked v trigger pops is bad. Forcing your opponent to use meter to v reversal can easily be considered a small win in many matchups.

Chun oki

Chuns oki is pretty simple, yet very powerful. Mastering this oki is imho one of the keys to playing a strong Chun Li:

After ex legs or SBK, immediately dash x2 then either st.mp or throw. The st.mp can be mixed up with cr.lp for an easier confirm, but imho the best way to practice this oki is against a karin doing cr.lp on wakeup. If you can consistently beat that with chuns st.mp then that means your oki is perfectly timed.

Ok, so that’s not it. If those were the only options then the oki wouldn’t be all that great, however, Chun also has other options from this oki:

SBK or ex legs knockdown then dash:

Just sit there after knocking the opponent down… Chun is still very close, but not in range to be thrown… But she still has a huge 17 frame knockdown advantage here… So her options are VERY ambiguous here. She can just backdash and make almsot any reversal wiff, she can continue to walk forward and grab the opponent, she can do fhk which will counterhit any non invincible move on startup.

However she has a REALLY easy way to get good pressure on her opponent here:

Dash x1, cr.lp wiff, immediate st.mp. This is near auto timing and beats the cr.lp clean. The good part though is that with just a slight unseeable step forward Chun can throw after the wiffed jab. So this is a REALLY clean oki setup.

Note that all of this is against quick rise. The double dash variants can work against back rise as well if you can see the difference in animations between quick and backrise as there are around 30 frames of rising animation.

Against opponents that like to try to stay on the ground against Chun… She has some nice options… First the setup:

Ex legs>dash x2,st.mp (wiff) neutral jump

Ok so from here Chun has some nice options:

Empty neutral jump (safe jump against ryus mp srk, so probably a safe jump against everything.

Neutral jump jhk (this hits high, of course)

Empty jump cr.lk (this hits low)

In practice this has been my most powerful oki against people that like to stay grounded. The only thing Chun really needs to look for is the backwards getup, but that is reactable to do a delayed st.mp. Otherwise, if the opponent did a quickrise your st.mp will make contact and then it’s easy to confirm into another ex legs on hit or blockstring on block. I didn’t even practice seeing the different style of rises, I just practiced against my opponent staying on the ground and I was able to get good oki off of basically all of his getup options ON REACTION.

This is powerful oki right here so remember the setup.

Ok so now that that has been said, Chun ALSO has some gimmicky shit she can do here if the opponent stays on the ground:

Double dash st.mp (wiff) fhk (wiff) st.mp (crossup) this crosses up.

To stay in front do double dash FMP (this pushes the corpse) fhk (wiff) cr.lp bnb (this doesn’t crossup)

So Chun gets a decent left/right there as well.

Next thing I’m going to put into this oki spot is what to do for ex legs>dash x2>throw wiff as that will be needed as well or else chuns oki will be thrown off when doing dash throw oki against expected quickrise, but the opponent stays on the ground instead.

Oki for dashx2 wiffed throw:

Ex legs>dash x2>throw (wiff on no recovery) st.lp (wiff) dash cr.lp or st.mp or throw

All these options hit wakeup 3 frame jab from Ryu.

So this basically covers all tech options from both ex legs Enders and mk legs Enders presumably. Happy hunting and let them fools know that getting knocked down against Chun is no longer safe.

*note, these timing devices aren’t necessarily easy and so will need to be practiced in training mode. Hardest part is memorizing everything and getting the first 2 dashes down to be frame perfect everytime, after that the buffer makes everything good with some practice.

Projectile game

Chuns projectile game is VERY strong. To give other players the idea of how strong it is:

Chuns heavy kikoken is 41 total frames.
Ryus vary but his HP fireball is 45 frames.
Kens fireballs are all 48 frames.
Guiles booms are all 38 frames.

Chun has the second fastest recovery time fireball in the game. In all actuality this is good, but with the fireball only going around half screen, that makes it somewhat harder to apply. The way I’ve been applying her fireball game is like so:

Easiest way is to just do a pokestring into kikoken. After the kikoken is blocked, instead of making the opponent block another poke or whatever, just throw another HP kikoken. This for me is a premier pattern against good players. It’s a pattern that requires the opponent to guess to hit Chun for, and it hits the opponent that tries to outpoke Chun or throw out moves to pre emptively beat chuns dash/poke game.

Once the opponent is complacent with blocking this fireball, it’s easy to sneak in a dash or 2 here and there. And that’s the second best thing about the midranged HP kikoken… It sets up chuns dash game GREATLY.

So that’s what to do when the opponent is actuall in range. But what about then they are far?

If they are a fireball thrower then match fireballs with your HP kikoken. If you charge correctly it will be hard for them to out fireball you without an ex fireball so now they need to approach you or allow you to make free meter. If they allow you to make meter then it’s a stalemate, but if they try to get in then it’s highly advantaged chun.

So what if they don’t have a fireball and still run? Throw HP kikokens to control the dash spacing so they can’t freely dash in, even if the fireballs wiff they control space.

Wait for a timing to throw a light kikoken, then dash in behind it and go on offense.

And that’s chuns projectile game in a nutshell. Remember the double fireball upclose as that sets up ALOT of chuns up close game, and does chip while doing it. The chip is negligible, but it’s there. And since the opponent is likely to want to stick out moves there, there is a good chance they get hit. Once the double fireball pattern has been smartly established then Chun can mix up the second fireball with dash ins.

Always remember to set up your cr.mp as well when fireballing an opposing fireballer.

Much more to come as I continue to update this post.


#2

Caveat on cr.mp and cr.hp - unsafe on block.


#3

…Caveat means warning - right?


#4

Caveat is more like a sidebar or addendum/add on but is used in more social circumstances.

Anywho, sorry to have not updated this yet but ive been under the pump with 12 hour days. Soon there is more to come though.


#5

I looked up Caveat…it means a warning, or explanation.
Like Caveat Emptor.


#6

I dont put much into dictionary definitions anymore. But use it how you want.


#7

Use stMK on any annoying crMK characters


#8

f+HK = go over lows, can make it hit meaty even midscreen which combos into st.lp naturally without counter hit, on counter cr.lp/st.lp depending on distance, also good to use as frametrap cr.lp > f+HK, can be used for cross over shenanigans. Only con is you’re negative on block, but still safe.


#9

i know f+HK is *supposed * to go over lows, but I feel that the timing is so strict for avoiding them that I don’t even consider that attack something that does avoid lows anymore. I use it after AA or after air-throw for a super meaty setup. Sometimes I use it to change sides after a knockdown for a mix up.


#10

f+HK you have to use on anticipation to hop over lows. The airborne frames don’t start till a while after you input the command so you can’t use it to reaction beat Claw slide or anything like that. It’s actually better to just use it to land as a meaty on the last active frames. The hit box for it once it becomes active is really good and can beat a lot of other standing and crouching buttons. If you space it so it lands at max range/last active frames it becomes plus on block also.

Her senenshuu df+MK overhead is the same. If you space it so it hits on max range/last active frame it’s also plus on block.


#11

Added a small v trigger pop section


#12

Nice, I strictly use standing fierce punch to pop v-trigger. On hit and after v-trigger, I go cr.fierce xx lk.ll, cr.jab, cr.mk xx mk.sbk - or if it will kill instead of sbk, I cancel into CA.

It’s pretty good.


#13

Added a section on oki


#14

Added a section on projectile game


#15

One interesting thing to add to oki. S.lp in vtrigger has 5 active frames. It covers both quick tech and back tech after dash dash off of sbk/ex legs and can combo into cr.lp cr.mk sbk to repeat the setup.


#16

@Dime_x I personally want to thank you for all of your insightful Chun-Li information and analysis. This has vastly improved my Chun-Li game, and I am having even more fun playing as her. This must’ve taken a lot of hours, lots of research, lots of experimenting, (maybe a couple loses online to check it’s practicality), but I truely appreciate everything you’ve provided for us Chun-Li players of all skill levels. Thank you so much. And I look forward to seeing more journal entries for our queen Chun-Li


#17

Sorry I took so long to respond :slight_smile: thx man. It didn’t take to long to do as I just post up things that I do that I think are fundamental or solve some sort of problem that I find in my matches.

Unfortunately I might be dropping Chun though for a bit. I just can’t find good damage with her from neutral that other characters can. My IALL ability to do the best version leaves much to be desired, I can do it. But the players I play against like to mixup between walking backwards, delay teching, no tech, and hit jab. This makes it basically to hard to really mount an effective upclose offense for me against good players, but since my Chun also has no real damage from outside bnb range, at midrange I’m also not winning the war of attrition against characters like Ryu as he has more HP, more damage and good counterpokes.

Right now I’m looking more towards cammy and guile. Cammy for the easy rushdown, guile for the easy keepaway…

Chun having lower level versions of both doesn’t seem immediately rewarding enough to me.

I’ll still keep her around though as I’m not planning on maining any of these characters, I’ll probably just play all 3.


#18

Added a bit more to the oki section… A very powerful oki os/option coverage that can be used to “safe jump” even ryus wakeup ex and mp srk)