Directional Influence..... why don't more fighting games incorporate this?


#1

FIRST THINGS FIRST: Let’s not start yet another fucking smash vs street fighter argument. I play both, I enjoy both and I know what I’m doing in both. so STFU I’m tired of people derailing threads instantly over this shit.:karate:

Directional Influence, here on referred to as DI, is present in Super Smash Bros Melee/Brawl (64 did NOT have DI, hence all combos were guaranteed in that game) and to a lesser extent in the Soul Calibur series.

Directional influence is as simple as holding a direction while you are being hit to influence which direction you fly from the attack. Smash DI is a step further, offering greater influence if you hit the control stick at the exact moment you are being hit. Here’s a example of it in action:

[media=youtube]OWAjYxGTmr4&NR=1[/media]

DI is used to escape combos and survive longer than normal. However even the best DI can read by top players, and thus amazing combos can and do still happen.

That’s how it works in Smash. In Soul Calibur, it’s as simple as holding a direction so you are not juggled by the same B launcher over and over again.

While a number of players would laugh at the idea that combos aren’t guaranteed, think about it the next time you are juggled indefinitely in the corner by Magneto for example. While I know Marvel players love their infinites, and it is what makes Marvel Marvel.

Imagine if he had to work at it to keep it going? You made try to DI your way out of the corner, maybe shake the stick to recover, and attempt a counter attack? He reads it, and has to intercept you to keep you in the corner. Or you escape?

Now I know what you are thinking: “Dude, they already have air techs in fighting games, your opponent can read them and continue to corner rape you, wtf are you getting at?”

What I’m getting at is something like this: Think of a typical strategy RPG. They pretty much all use a grid system exactly like a chess board. Everyone is confined to move within those spaces, in straight lines of some fashion.

Now what if you got rid of the grid?

Suddenly any kind of movement is possible, and you are not confined to straight lines anymore.

This is a much simpler and less gimmicky idea than other ideas that have emerged over the years, such as the burst from Guilty Gear or the infamous Combo breaker from Killer Instinct.

Discuss.


#2

My kneejerk response is “because in most games, it would render hit-stun poinntless.”

I may be wrong, though.


#3

Actually Smash 64 did have DI in the form of Smash DI in the American version. Why don’t more fighting games have this?

Because fighting games aren’t the platforming type combat of super smash bros games. Really most fighting games definitely shouldn’t have DI.


#4

It makes hit-stun useless…nevermind.
Beaten.

Anyway…if more fighting games played like smash, it’d be okay.
Otherwise pointless.


#5

dear op shut the fuck up mods please lock this thread thanks in advance


#6

You’re too new to say that.


#7

Watchusay!!??!?

Damn punk.

I’m sorry but, DI only works in a 2D game like Smash because…you can actually get smashed out of the screen, thus DI actually works and makes sense in that game.

REAL 2D games have an alternative…it’s called teching, you can tech back/neutral/forward, and similarly, you read the opponents techs or set them up for certain tech traps in order to continue offense and keep them on their toes.

DI would not work in REAL 2D games because stages aren’t as wide and nor can characters fall off the actual stage you nub.

Also, REAL 2D games aren’t as floaty as smash, thus if there was DI it’d happen too quicky to matter, it’d also be really hard for the opponent on the offense to actually catch someone who’s DI’ng away during your combo (of course this would vary with each game).

You would have to make a whole new 2D fighting game with the mechanics of DI in mind, and it’d just end up being like smash without the falling off of stages. Someone could try it, but it seems like a whole lot of effort to go to just to add some pointless Smash mechanic that serves no other real purpose other than to satisfy your ‘What if?’ ideas.

Also, in Smash you can tech, but the more damage you’ve accumulated the longer it takes before you can tech…this works because Smash is based around damage percentages and ringing people out, not reducing their health to zero. So what, in this magical 2D fighting game you’re talking about, the lower someones health is, the longer they can’t tech?

That sounds retarded. The only thing I can think of is having a ‘tech’ meter similar to a stun or guard break bar, but the problem is that it would have to work on the same basis–accumulated damage/hits. Sorry man, it’s retarded.

DI’ing would also look really retarded might I add. Imagine being jabbed out of the air, then magically floating away while your opponent thinks “Wtf! I only jabbed you!” while chasing after your floaty ass.

Think you idiot, think! Do you even know the mechanics of your own game? Luckily I used to play Smash so I know how the game works, keep your scrubby ideas to yourself until you actually figure out how fighting games work. Oh, and this post is harsh because you dissed GG and KI and had the audacity to call a proper and practical mechanic (for REAL 2D fighting games) a ‘gimmick’, fool. Many 2D games use the idea of a Burst now, but I guess your idea of DI’ing is way better riet?

Fool.


#8

Honestly, most 2d fighters would not want this. Games like Tekken pretty much are designed with a specific casual mentality in mind so it would only complicate a fighter that thrives on being easy to pick up. It would be pointless in KOF, Blazblue or Street Fighter.

So that leaves DoA, Soul Calibur, Smash and Virtua Fighter, and VF fans laugh at your attempts at making their fighter deeper through a silly mechanic like this.

/shrug

Maybe if you make a fresh fighter, with a unique concept where items could be left on and still be balanced, then people would be interested.

Oh, and like Aion said… you do have to keep in mind, the purpose of Smash is to knock the fighter off the stage (lol), making DI the very core of the game. Unlike most fighting games, where the core gameplay is…, well, fighting.


#9

Well, with Soul Calibur, air control does add a bit of depth. If you can design your combos around the idea of making them choose a direction to air control, you can open up new damage opportunities. I know Raphael can do this. I’m not sure who else can, but for the most part you’ll be sticking with the guaranteed damage anyway.


#10

:chat:


#11

So that would be different from Soul Calibur in what way?

Also it’s called “air control.”


#12

it would be different because smash players invented fighting games

also the use of the words “spacing” and “metagame” by those “people” are deplorable


#13

“why dont more fighting games incorporate this?”

maybe cuz theyre not smash??


#14

I don’t think it would be too much of a guess to say this is an alt account he is using cause his old one got banned.

Just my guess though.


#15

Are you sure you know what you’re doing?


#16

word bro :rock:


#17

Only 2D game I could see this in is Arcana Heart with it’s huge stages.


#18

Almost all real fighting games incorporate a little law called gravity, Smash does not.


#19

well since teching in mvc2 puts you in normal jump mode, that means it is pretty much useless because you’re probably gonna end up eating guard break anyway. Im glad the move is there, but if you want to make the “tech-hit” move more efficient, it should have been made so that you push yourself as far away as possible from your opponent. If you’re in the corner, then only your opponent would get pushed very far away, that way you have space to breathe and you still keep your super jump status (yes, i did see that video for mvc2 where teching didnt really help, characters like storm, magneto, sentinel, cable could still guard break you since teching puts you in normal jump mode). If you wanna improve the tech, give it more properties that keep you safe. Whats the point of having a move that screws you over afterwards anyway?


#20

Sheesh the Jan 09’ers have already learned to disapline new members.

I love the hate.

In Smash, it is fun to learn how your opponent likes to DI or roll and punish accordingly. Its not really in the spirit of 2D fighting though.

Its similar to parrying where you get massive rewards for guessing (not quite guessing, I know) what your oppoenent will do.

Street Fighter is more about putting them in a situation where you don’t have to care what they do.

You earn that positioning, and it shouldn’t be lost because you guessed the wrong direction.