Discuss. Justice and Kliff Tourney Legal @ EVO

So here is a copy paste of what I posted over at Dustloop last month.
I may or may not have been drunk while posting it, but I find great humor in the discussion and anger that follows from users when talking about Justice/Kliff being legal or not. You can argue that I am just posting this to cause trouble in the community of GGXX. You may be right. With the recent flow of discussion in the general forum on SRK and on DLoop, I figured it’d be a fun topic to talk about!

Original Post at: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5547

In truth, I believe while they should be given a chance for America, and seen if they really are broken, right now the match dynamics of GGXXAC have been around so long and have become so solid to introduce them now would completely throw off the game. So I don’t know if it’d be viable for this Evo. I don’t think they should become tourney legal.

However on the other hand I really love seeing Bozac post in ALL CAPS.



Prepare for shit storm.

In before ban.

was justice and kliff even in regular AC? i dont even remember. i know they are in AC+. but we are playing AC, not +. So i dunno.

Spirit juice, i loled at your av

I think j1n raises good points and its certainly worth looking in to.

It may be worth a 2nd look but then again the new game mechanics may have allowed for even more Shenanigans from Kliff and Justice but only time will tell…regardless it’'ll be another 2 bad matchups for Johnny -_-

oh man… LOL Jason just trying to start something haha. I already posted my thoughts on this in the other thread.

If you allow Kliff and Justice then you have to allow 3S Gill, deal? LOLOL!!

This logic fails at even the most basic level.

lol wut? Kliff and Justice weren’t that game breaking to begin with but Gill was the epitome of broken (beaten by Cinder in KI though by far)
and with all the balances made to the game he’s merely saying it’s worth checking out if they’re not broken so we can include them into tourneys and thus open a new level of depth for GG players (2 new matchups to learn) and it’ll give some amazing tourney matches.


On the subject, I’ve always thought that Kiff and Justice were broken in AC, but the evidence that the OP brought up suggesting that they were banned for other reasons is just too much.

The reason why I say that is that I always ran CONSOLE tournaments at my tournaments, and to ban them because that it isn’t the perverbial “Arcade Standard”, is not reason enough to ban anything if you run things with consoles, at least that is how I look at it. Time for me to rethink things about the game.

My point is that Arcades are dead/dying. It is time to give up a dead standard.

ok so as I already stated, these characters have been around for like 7 years so why all of a sudden do we need to add them now? Also, this is AC+ only. Evo isnt even using AC+. AC has already been around for 2 years so why change the tournament standard now? AC+ isnt even a new game, its the exact same game with a few bonus features added. A lot of people arnt even going to get AC+ since they dont care about story mode and no other tournaments are using Kliff and Justice so why should they have to get the game and try to learn matchups vs characters that no one uses just for one tournament? what about the Japanese? They play on arcade, there is no AC+ on arcade. I think allowing them may discourage some Japanese players from wanting to enter.

Yea maybe the Gill thing was a bad example, how about Evil Ryu and Iori in CvS2? They werent that broken, but they were banned for the whole time CvS2 was around. Why is this any different?

Troll thread should be closed :frowning:

These are good points. This discussion has been had 100x. Its the “Arcade Standard vs Console Age” argument. There are a lot of reasons to keep Kliff and Justice banned, and a few to give them a try. Im more worried that in the future we are not going to have the level heads around needed to make the inclusive decisions. This is the console age. Banning needs to be a thing of the past (without proof).

if AC+ was actually a new game and it was console only and they had the new characters I would say include them. However, AC+ is NOT a new game. No system changes were made at all. Everything added was just fanboy crap. Nothing about the actual way matches are played were changed at all. Im almost positive that almost anyone who plays Guilty Gear competatively (people who are serious about tournament play, not the fanboy types that like the drama CDs and artbooks only etc) dont want Kliff and Justice at EVO and Jason just wants them in cuz hes Jason and likes to mess with people and stir up drama :stuck_out_tongue:

if they’re not broken. allow them. Whatevs. People will probably soft ban them anyway.

4 months to EVO.

I believe both Kliff and Justice’s playstyles and movesets alone invalidate them from being tourney worthy, and it seems quite clear to me that they haven’t been as carefully balanced as the rest of the cast. Same thing goes for EX versions of characters, which may not (all) be unbalanced but obviously are not tourney worthy. Kliff and Justice aren’t banned simply for being console only. Even if there was sufficient evidence presented to justify unbanning them, which I definitely don’t believe there is, it’s much too late in the game to do so and a lot of the community would have to upgrade to AC+ just for that purpose which is ridiculous.

I would like this., But i know that ppl with bitch then they lose. They will claim they dont know the matchups. Then when i pwn Japs they will also claim the same.

If someone with great skill and practice wins with justice, they will say skill had nothing to do with it and it was all the character.

I main Justice and i can say she is top tier for sure, but is not a better character then eddie. i wish she would be legal.

Also on an unrelated note, i find it hilarious when top players like to ask for money matches, but then backdown when i accept on the condition that i play justice.

I dont want those characters to be legal in the tournament because just as you said, its unfair cuz no one is going to know the matchup. Its one thing to not know a matchup cuz no one in your area plays the character but its another thing to not know a matchup when the completely tournament legit version of the game you play on doesnt even have those characters to begin with (ie arcade or regular AC).

However, I will money match your justice at evo just for the hell of it. I remember a few years ago I played your justice in casuals in like reload or slash and I beat it. I honestly have no idea what will happen cuz ive never even SEEN AC justice but ill money match you anyway just for fun so you feel better, deal?