Dive kicks 101 : Frames+Chicken stuff

#1

I try to figure out how dive kicks works since they are a big problem for players

Wolverine Dive kick put you in 18 frames of blockstun on the ground. Unlikely what the bradygames said, the best frame advantage he can have is +8 if he aim the foot (not +11)

Some examples

+6 for wolverine versus Jill crouch

+8 for Wolverine (maximum)

+4 versus standing jill

+1 for Wolverine is not good because if jill mash H, and he try to do a normal in this situation like a cr L or stand L, he get grab by her. If he choose to mash H, he cannot grab her because of the blockstun so he will do a H and get grab before he hit her. Of course he can jump back to bait someone who mash H.

Now what about chicken blocking ? Jump in the air

Jill get hit as soon as she is airborn. Instead of stay in blockstun during 18 frames she land quickly and cancel the guardstun (Alioune “Zero 3” Sensei just learned me that ^^)

Wolverine Land

Jill land just 2 frames after him

In this godlike situation, she has been put in blockstun only during 6 frames + 1 frame of land recovery. Because of that Wolverine is now at -7 ( yes minus seven )
This example show the best scenario possible though (get hit as soon as you are airborn)

I know chicken block is not new (The bradygames guide advice to do that to beat dive kick) but it’s good to know what is the advantage in frames and how it look like frame by frame

Next is Trish :slight_smile:

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#2

-10 (Minus ten) for wolverine. She land one frame before him

#3

Good stuff. Thx for the effort.

#4

That’s pretty cool. Too bad good Wolverine’s only dive kick if it’s a potential crossup and stick to Assist + Berserker Slash instead.

#5

I’ve been wanting to learn to use chicken guard like this, but it’s really hard. It’s hard to jump and immediately block when Wolverine is right above your head. If you get hit, you’re fuckin toast, Jill.

Also a lot of characters still don’t have a button fast enough to punish Wolvie, even with a perfect chicken guard

#6

@Mustachio yes i forgot about Berserker slash super which speed up him :(. Nice notice

@Mariodood Of course it’s risky to go in air since you can give him a ground bounce if you that go wrong.
About the difficulty to jump then block, you don’t have to do that. I used up back so i’m already blocking before i leave the ground. If he hit you on the ground you block, if not you jump and block

But yes if he crossup you, you are dead :frowning:

About character with slow normals, i think everyone has a way to deal with dive kick. Hulk don’t worry about them since he has armor move. Dante is slow but in the same time taller than Jill so the disadvantage for wolverine is bigger (i think). An there is always the option to punish with a throw since they stay close

And even if you don’t punish a move, changing who has the priority is already important

#7

Should this be in the Wolverine subforum… ?

#8

Personally, I was wondering if it should be a thread altogether. It could technically be a sub-discussion in DevilJin’s ‘Derp Stuff’ thread since he’s covering Dive Kicks and all.

#9

Well if he’s gonna be adding Trish and possibly others, I’d say leave it here.

#10

Good stuff.

I say fuck hiding away useful and detailed info in the middle of megathreads where it’ll never be seen.

#11

Yeah, I agree, but at the same time, I can see where Preppy might consider an executive decision :frowning:

#12

Nah, we need a chicken guarding thread.

seriously, i’ve always thought it was weird how people exit blockstun when they hit the ground, it creates a lot of weird situations/random grabs and stuff

#13

Please do Trish, her Divekick is godlike…many do not know how powerful it actually is.

#14

I was wondering me too if do this thread or not. I’m not good in this game so don’t expect advice from me right now. I just take picture hoping that will let me understand more this game, be more confident, etc.

Anyway here is Trish but this time i choose Vergil since Jill is not popular ^^;;

Her dive kick put you in 22 frames of blockstun !!

“Worst” case (i think) for her, she hit the head. That give her a +7 in this specific situation versus Vergil standing and +10 with Vergil crouching
Stand

Crouch

The best i manage to have with her is +12 (the picture below) but in theory she can be at +15 (with a meaty dive kick ?)

Now when you perfectly chicken guard with Vergil, it works like Jill. He stay in air guardstun during 6 frames and after that he touch the ground

First example and again the head of vergil aim

And he land before her (exactly 2 frames before)

In this situation head hit (trish is not close to the ground)+ chicken guard, Vergil reverse the situation and Trish is at -8 (minus eight). I think it’s the best case for Vergil.

There is other situation with perfect chicken guard. Here Trish is at -5 (minus five) (she land one frame before vergil)

And here -4 (minus four)

What about if you don’t succeed to do a perfect chicken guard ?

Vergil stay in air guardstun during 12 frames and he land after.
In this situation Vergil has yet the priority but just 2 frames. Trish is at -2 (minus two). They are close so a throw is possible

Remember Vergil can act one frame after he hit the ground so don’t wait to see him land, the best is to press buttons early or even mash xD. The Bradygames guide explain that capcom made a buffer for normals so even if you hit a button 2 frames early, the move will always come out. Yes there is no real just frame because of that :slight_smile:

I think that’s all for Trish

Can these moves be punished?
#15

what.about if she cancels it can you do anything about it

good shit BTW

#16

What about Zero’s diveblade?

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2135/sentsuizanh4.jpg

#17

Akuma pls!

#18

This is all incredibly useful. Thank you,very much.