Do you believe in Tiers?


#1

I remember when I didnt know what the hell a tier was. But now I know it all too well, it’s crammed down your throat now days when it comes to fighting games, Tekken has tiers SC had tiers. . DoA and Mk fans even had the gumption to tier their rosters, and I’ve even seen it being used in relation to other genres as well (WTF . .DMC3 fans tiered the weapons)

I used to hold true to the theory that “if you like them, their official placing should be irrelevant” but now I’ve had a change of heart.

I think tiers (while annoying and gay) actually hold pretty true to most games. Some characters are at just more than a slight advantage, and likewise for the opposite.

How do you feel about high tiers and low tiers? Usually the high tier are some of the easiest to learn and easier to exploit, they do tons of damage, wicked priorities(crushing ect) and in recent 3d fighters now days you find that concepts like negatve frames and push on block are what decide who it truly above who. Some games have tiers down to a sciece. Do you consider wins by high tier characters to be less impressive than say a low tier?

Would you say that low tier characters are the underdog in the situation? I admit it’s a lot more impressive to win matches with a character that is considered low tier. And if you lose, you can always fall back on the fact that they have less to work with(which is scrubby, but it still works).

I think it’s kinda funny how I gravitate towards the appearance and fighting style of the character rather than the way they are ranked.

The stupidest thing that I think has ever happened to me regarding tiers was I was at the arcade once(long time ago)and you saw the same people picking the same characters over and over, mirror matches and playing a good 4-5 characters max, and I picked a “low tier” character but apparently something was funny about it. I mean I still loss, but I ended up winning a round, and part of the second round, which is more than some of the guys other competition did playing the same characters as him.


#2

this topic has been done to death

it always ends in huge a flamewar when someone tries to deny that tiers exist


#3

Do you understand what a tier means?


#4


#5

Winning is winning. Winning even because you used a low tier character is still winning. And losing then excusing yourself because you used a low tier character is scubby.

Good for you. Now go away.


#6

Sonson/Sil Sam/Kobun team owns you. I wins!


#7

I believe in a thing called love.


#8

Tiers are bullshit.

I recently traveled to Pittsburg to meet this dude named Jake. He only uses the top tier of 3rd Strike (Yun, Ken, Chun). He is damn good, amazing parry skills, and a text book Ken. I use Remy, Q, Twelve (all low tier), sometimes Elena and sometimes Alex. I play a very unorthodox style. There is nothing ‘text book’ about how I play.

My best friend Mike plays Hugo, who is “mid tier”. Mike is a much more casual player, he jokes and taunts during fights, he doesn’t take the game as seriously as I do. None the less, he is a beast w/ Hugo.

Matches start and Jake beats me the first 3 matches. This is after an hour of travel, and a week w/o playing the game. Then Mike plays, and Mike destroys him. After I get warmed up, I start beating Jake. The games were intense, and were all close. But by all accounts, shouldn’t Jake have been kicking my ass? Am I that good that I can beat him w/ “low tier”? The answer is no.

Jake then giggles as I pick Q to face Tj’s Ryu (TJ is really good too, better than me I openly admit). I beat him convincingly w/ Q.

The point is, it is not the character but the player. Look at Japan, people win SBO’s and shit w/ Makato, Dudley. People do insanely well w/ Q, Necro, Oro and just about every character is used.

People are too scared off by “tiers”, and instead try to emulate what they see in videos. You cannot emulate someones style, you have to make your own. That is the only way to win.


#9

parry all, you dont understand what tiers mean. and you think that player skill has something to do with determining tiers.

skill has NOTHING to do with tiers.


#10

OMFG GET ME VIDZ!!


#11

This statement right here killed anything you would have had to say afterward.


#12

don’t know jake

but listen

tiers are just a indication of how good a character is

I play low tiers all the time too

but tiers don’t dictates who wins

they dictate how hard you have to work to win sometimes but really it just says

which characters have more abusable ish/ less work / better tools

you can still win with low tiers

but tiers do exist


#13

:rolleyes:

Anyhow … I think people instantly throw off the concept of tiers b/c they want to play as who they like.

But not for one second are you going to convince me that Nina vs Christie is “anyones game”.

Better yet servbot vs Cable. There is just no chance in hell, not even the slightest, given you and the person you are playing are at fairly equal gaming status, it’s just ridiculous hard to win. Harder for the latter, but still low tier vs high tier end up in tears. :sweat:


#14

um

servbot v with a battery coming in before him and doom backing up can just about chip him to death pretty easily just needs to do the proper set ups.

it’s not impossible to win with low tiers by any stretch

as i said some characters are just better than others.

playing low tiers is fun but pick whoever you want

tiers exist but just because player a picks low tier and player b picks top tier doesn’t mean shit

like the guy who posted a little above me said don’t confuse tiers with skill


#15

Seriously, servbot owns. who can deny that about 60% of everyone’s move whiff against servbot. Huh? When you guys figured out the tier listings did you guys take that into account huh? huh? How you gonna AHVB servbot now if it’s gonna whiff?

Regardless, Tiers exist. The end.


#16

Tiers are there strictly for people to whine about. That’s their purpose, because when you win, the first excuse out of the person is… dun, dun, dun… the character. Now, if a character is outright broken like Duolon the incredible zoning wonderbeast then you have to work pretty damn hard but it still came down to your inability to handle a handicap. A character may be flawless, but a human isn’t. Eventually, an opening, a mistake, a miscalculation, a bluff, somethingwill come up.

Don’t like tiers? Play Guilty Gear or Street Fighter Third Strike. True, tiers are present but not in the MVC or Tekken 5 sense.

Oh, and mid-tier users fucking own.


#17

Tiers are always present even in the most balanced of games. They might not have as much of an impact but an impact none the less.

I think the whole concept of tiering has been forgotten by people, they dont even know wtf it is anymore.

Tiering is simply the process of determining how good certain characters are in a game compared to the others.

Of course it fucking matters.

Do some people put to much relevance it in, yes they do. But I would rather have those people then the ones who think tiers play no part in games whatsover and believe in this utterly futile skill is the determining factor bullshit.

Tiering is for if both people are at equal fucking skill level.

Im getting tired of everyone going well 3S this and 3S that, I love 3S but guess what, ITS NOT THE KING OF BALANCE. For every match people go oh Q won this or Twelve won that, they pay no attention to the 100s of matches those characters lost and the hundereds of matchs afterward those characters lost. Hell the people playing them will outright tell you those characters arent as good.

You can even take games like Reload or T5, is anyone really ever going to be scared of a May or Kuma player, NO.

You dont become good by taking some mid tier character and doing fairly well with them so you can brag. You become good by realizing why certain characters are the best and using those characters to there max potential to beat all the other people going, oh im not going to use so and so because everyone else does.

Its not a hard concept to understand.


#18

Tier do exist, it’s just that some people overestimate their means. Obviously 90% of the match is decided by player skill, but still some character are definitely better than others.
Picking a lower tier is giving yourself a small handicap. It doesn’t really matter if the opponent is either fare weaker or far stronger than you, but you’ll feel it if you play against a player who is about the same level as you.

All of this is assuming, of course, that the players know the matchup.
Many times someone sneaks in with a low tier character and beats top tier players who are not lesser players, but just aren’t used to fight against that particular character (even the weakest character can be unstoppable against someone who doesn’t know what to do against him). All of this tends to blind some players into thinking that tiers do not exist.


#19

actually t5 is pretty balanced. at final round 8, the biggest t5 tourney so far. a ganryu player won. a raven/baek player got 2nd. and a devil jin got 3rd. btw virtually all of the best t5 players in the us were present, sans JOP and bronson.


#20

Have you considered the fact that you and your friend could be better than jake? If no, then why? What makes you think he is better than you? He can do combos? He can do links? He picked top tier? It’s possible he was the underdog and he got a few lucky wins off you and your friend because he was using top tiers.