# Does a micro switch with automatic signal truncating exist?

#1

I’m a mechanical engineer by trade, not a electrical engineer and I’m hoping the answer to my question has an easy answer:

Is there a micro switch out there that can be used in an arcade joystick that self (automatically) truncates (cuts off) the signal as quickly as possible. Maybe as quickly as 1ms or if not, how fast then? If this type of switch does not exist, is there a device that I can add to the switch circuit that can do this for me?

Why would I want to do this? I want to be able to press the same button again as quickly as possible without actually releasing the button. If the signal is cut off automatically for me, I can register the same move again with another switch. Hopefully you can see where I’m going with this.

Please let me know if you have any ideas, any input is very much appreciated.

-wes

#2

Sounds like you need Turbo function.

Or wire two buttons to a single signal. That way you have to buttons to rapidly press instead of one.

What do you need to apply this for?

#3

He wants two buttons A and B both mapped to LK (for example) or both actually attached to the same signal on the PCB so he can hit A~B to get LK out twice very quickly.

The “real” answer is to just learn to hit buttons quickly. AFAIK there are no microswitches that are… anti-latching already? I think you can do this by taking a normal COM-NC-NO microswitch, connecting the NC and NO terminals together (call it SIGNAL) and inverting the COM/SIGNAL output as OUTPUT, assuming it’s break-before-make to begin with. So normally NC is attached to COM so SIGNAL is grounded. Invert that and OUTPUT is normally open. Press the button and there’s a small point where NC is open and NO is open. Then the inversion grounds OUTPUT as a result. Shortly afterward NO is grounded, grounding SIGNAL, inverting that to OUTPUT as open.

After that it’s up to your PCB for how it interprets such split-second signals.

However:

1. This may interfere with tournament rules, depending on your specific tournament.
2. If you don’t care about tournaments it would be easier to learn to use turbo functionality.
3. It would be easier still to learn to mash out repeated button presses as quickly as you desire.

#4

There is no microswitch that I know of for arcade functions that does this, however you could easily use an IC to do this, it would probably require some programming though. I’m sure an Arduino could do this rather easily.

There is surely a cheaper IC solution but I don’t know which one would do this. Maybe a relay of some kind? You would just attach the IC to the arcade buttons and power it via USB or battery.

What kind of cheater function are you trying to achieve, out of curiosity?

#5

The function I’m seeking to create here is a “manual turbo” or sorts. I would argue that if you register one attack per button press, it’s not turbo, it’s a new layout that allows you to input button presses faster. So in essence you’d have an arcade stick with 12 switches (6 with normal switches, 6 switches with the signal truncators) and 12 buttons.
You’d have 2 switches/buttons wired to each of the 6 traditional attacks and have the buttons arranged in such a way that you could hit the button with the truncated signal first, immediately followed by the button with the normal sustained signal which would give you two attacks with two button presses.

This way of hitting buttons would be much faster then the traditional double tap method. In order to register two hits of the same button you (typically) need to press the button all the way to the end of the throw of the switch, release it, then press it again. I cut out the middle man with this idea and I don’t have to deal with the inertia of switching directions with your fingers.
I actually already know how to package this idea to make it work but a mechanical device doesn’t allow for fast enough response. If someone could help me make a prototype of the signal truncator, I’m sure I could make it work.

I’m looking for a part I can buy (links would be helpful) or someone to work with me. The above responses are moonman to me (sorry I’m a dumb ME). You have to admit, the idea is interesting and could really help peoples’ execution.

-wes

#6

This is going to have to be done PCB side, meaning it’s going to have to be programmed into the PCB. Also, it is, for all intents and purposes, a form of turbo, so it’ll never be tournament legal.

#7

Unfortunately I don’t think this will be the case.

If you push A on frame one, release it, then push it again before frame two, it registers as the button being held down the entire time.

This is why plinking became popular. Double tapping was only able to achieve a button press every other frame, there had to be one frame between button presses so it wouldn’t register as the button being held down. Plinking is able to take advantage of the way the game handles inputs to get a button to register as being pressed twice for two consecutive frames, which is generally more useful to players to help hit buttons in one frame windows (double tapping remains more effective for larger windows).

This is also why turbo isn’t as disgustingly gamebreaking as some would make it out to be.

If you really want to do this I think it would be more feasible to do it mechanically, modifying your pushbuttons to have shorter engages and deadzones. You could probably achieve your goal using the standard 6 button layout as well (using both fingers to rapidfire one button), so it’d be tournament legal.

Though, ofc this would also come with the drawback of making your buttons a little too sensitive.

#8

If you go to radio shack you can get a 555 timer chip. I think it is labeled as a LM555 in those drawers. I used one of these to make a turbo button. I think there is a way to make it so that it turns on a signal for a set amount of time then turns off. You will have to do some research.

#9

All of the commonly used buttons are Single Pole Single Throw.
Switch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can use transistors or relays to make multiway circuits with SPST switches- which is probably close to what you’re looking for. (I was thinking about setting something like this up a while ago.)
Multiway switching - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

EDIT: HAPP/IL and Yenox appear to use STDT switches, so 2-button multiway wiring with those would be relatively easy.

#10

Was reading up on these and was about to recommend one as well.

#11

I’m not sure about the first part of your statement about not being able to hit the same button on consecutive frames. There’s no way to test it with conventional buttons. Mechanical devices don’t have the short response time that electronics do, that’s why I want to try this sort of device. I’m hoping this device can be coupled with plinking to increase your chances for inputs, and you would have the ability to better choose what strength attack comes out for a special move (by not necessarily having to plink for multiple inputs).

Thanks for the input people. If any other ideas and questions come up, please let me hear them-

-wes

#12

Fighting games run at 60hz. Plenty of mechanical stuff that goes that fast.

I have a programmable controller. Hitting buttons too fast will lead to ‘ignored inputs’. This is a video where I’m using that to test synchronization.

#13

I don’t understand what is the point of this video? The only thing I see is that you are only getting one button press per each input of the joystick, but I’m not sure what your button presses are (i.e are all buttons turboed or are they being hit in a sequental pattern)? How does this explain or prove that hitting the buttons too fast ignores inputs?

-wes

#14

The input sequence repeats (each for about 1/120 of a second):
Direction + jab
Direction + strong (image is darkened)
Direction + short
Direction + forward (image is darkened)

The input display only shows strong & forward because the jab and short are down while the system ignores the other inputs. (You’d be seeing blue in the input display if the game showed all inputs.)

The original intent was to demonstrate that SSFIV doesn’t run at 59.94 Hz like other fighting games, so optimized turbo is going to have to be at a different frequency than for other fighting games where 29.97 Hz is optimal. If it did, the black bands would be stationary on the screen instead of scrolling. (Synchronization is required to do silly stuff like this [media=youtube]9U7rgIf_H3g[/media])

#15

I don’t mean to troll but I can’t see any benefits of this mod. What haps if you want to do a move where you hold down a button?(akuma’s beam hyper in mvc3) I bet it would screw you up more than it would help you.

#16

Game and controller poll the inputs at a some interval, every X amount of time. If the button shows a connect for Y amount of time before releasing, the odds that the button state being down isn seen by a poll is Y/X. Odds approach 0 as Y decreases.
Sure, there are other annoying details (controller poll vs game poll, inherent RC imperfections in the wires slowing Y down, microswitch bounce) but that’s the general idea. The more impossibly short your one shot turbo button, the more improbable it is that the activation would be seen at all by the game.

If you’re still wanting to jerry rig something like this, the only way I can think of that uses the mechanical properties of the switch to cause it instead of the electrical would be to use buttons with a three pronged microswitch, like Happ buttons. Connect the signal to the COM tab, along with a resistor connecting the signal to ground; the resistor has to be less resistance (half?) that the existing pull up resistor, so like a 4.7k ohm. Connect the NC and NO tabs directly to power/VCC.
As long as the capacitance of the wires and the switch isn’t too bad, then the button will only show a low voltage (‘pressed’) during the split second when the metal tab is swinging from one tab to the other. That should give you an active state of just a couple of milliseconds.

I agree 100%.