I hate to get involved in this. I was already an SNK fan before CvS came around, and I even bought a NGPC just for MotM.
Still, I like the way Capcom does things, EXCEPT for their nerfing of overheads. I think that is the only consistent problem with CvS2’s design.
As for the characters, well, you can say you like the CvS2 versions better (and I do), but SNK fans like to preach. Doesn’t matter what it is, or whether or not it’s true, if you say Capcom does something better than SNK, expect a few paragraphs about why you’re wrong (at least, why they think your wrong). They can’t just say, “yeah that’s true, but here’s the trade-off that makes SNK still good…” Nope, the answer is that you are totally wrong.
I loved Yamazaki in CvS2. I had never played him in KOF before, but after playing him in CvS2, I gave it a shot. You know what? I still liked him. I adapted how he played in CvS2 to the way he played in KOF, and did pretty good. Yet, for some reason, this is considered a crime.
You SNK fans who think Capcom purposely butchered their characters should get a fucking clue.
Every complaint you have is usually a KOF complaint, so right off the bat, you repeatedly overlook Nako’s status in CvS1/2 and Hibiki. Capcom turned them into fucking monsters (Nakoruru in particular is borderline ridiculous). Geese, Yama and Todo have been alleged top-tiers since the game was out. Rock isn’t that far behind them either, and given the suckiness of his MOTW incarnation, that says a lot. Kyo and Iori can compete with the top-tier as well, even Rugal and Athena, two of the most seriously underrated characters. So even on the KOF front, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Hell, they even made some of the less popular characters likable. They did a damned fine job making Todo playable. And look at Chang. When was the last time he had a built-in “assist” character in KOF? He has a corner trap now, and he has less trouble with zoning and rushing in. I never liked this character at all in KOF, but with the addition of Choi and revamped normals, CvS2 Chang’s easily become the most fun character I’ve played in any 2D fighting game. Even if he isn’t top-tier.
well with hibiki you don’t have to do much. but set their an turtle? in lb she’s much more dangers she’s alot faster and she has better combos. now for kyo he’s alot better faster have better setups in kof. don’t get me wrong he’s pretty damn good in cvs2 but he’s no kof kyo? the thing that get’s me is some of his moves in cvs2 are way to slow and lagg. he’s moves should have been alot better, i don’t really care about the auto guard on his 114 Shiki: Aragami. but he should’ve had it on his 100 Shiki: Oniyaki? just like the way he has it on his 115 Shiki: Dokugami. that would’ve help him out a little bit?
Capcom doesn’t do SNK “better”, they just do it in a different style. I can’t speak about SNK doing capcom because the only time they have done it (not talking about portable games) was SVC choas, and that wasn’t even finished. Terrible hit boxes and detection. But the capcom sprites did look good and different just not “better”.
the one thing that gets me is the lack of cancels and command normals
I play both games, but CvS2 is really pretty boring IMO. Just in general…
Even though Yamazaki is good, it still feels hes pretty braindead easy to play.
I still like SNK style more, it feels a lot looser with how you can play everyone, and theres nothing wrong with having a wider set of options…
but still 2k-2k1 were probably the worst kof games aside from 99 and 2k3. 2k way worse than 2k1 though.
There’s no comparison between how Capcom does their games and how SNK does their games. Capcom’s fighters have the 3-strength punches and kicks, SNK has 2-strength. In CvS, they had to give the SNK characters a Medium Punch / Kick move that they’ve never had before. Very rarely did SNK make a game with 3-strength attacks. SNK also had a way of making their sprites and artwork look more human and real, while Capcom makes theirs more anime, cartooned, and over-muscled.
they added new characters and a new system that didnt work
the combo system was glitchy as fuck and some shit was just fucking retarded.
I also didnt like what they did to most of the characters… less like 99 was a good thing, but the new style wasnt too fun. I remember a lot of characters instantly became pure suckage.
The backgrounds were better than 2k1, and also they only had 3 colors per character… still, way better palette selection than just brownish/red and more blue/white shades.
But yeah, the strikers were really pretty dumb, the redeeming part was the small stuff for the fans like all the references to older characters.
Edit : in response to bunny
Yes, but they have a whole slew of f-A, f-B, df C, df-b, d-A/C in the air, and almost all moves were cancellable into this, and usually were overheads and such that lose their overhead property when comboed into and out of. Which makes them have a lot more versatility… Also dont forget CD attacks, which everyone had anyway. Most of the time SNK characters had more normal attacks than Capcom. But the transition to CvS2 just meant take whatever they couldnt replace with CD, and make it faster and call it a medium attack.
Actually capcom does do a good makeover for SNK characters, CVS2 is my second favorite fighting game with SNK fighters in it. The first being ss & ss2 & ss3. Capcom is better than SNK in fighting. But thats not a bad thing because SF is the greastest fighting game series ever.
There is no comparison, either you like SNK fighters or you don’t. Yes, Capcom was the first to make a 2D fighter, but who cares. It doesn’t make capcom games better fighters. StreetFighter cabs were everywhere, I remember only certain places had Neo Geo cabs. Naturally the majority grew up playing StreetFighter. Also Capcom advertised StreetFighter. You never saw edvertisements for SNK fighters/games. Unless you owned SNK games on the NES or a Neo Geo home system, most people never had the chance to play SNK games.
Kyo, Hibiki, Rock, Vice, Rugal, and almost every other SNK character, make more sense design wise in CvS2. In KOF very few of their attacks work well together, or have any real use. Capcom did what they could to make a large batch of nonsensical attacks work with each other, and they did fairly good job doing so. In my opinion, Capcom has a an overall better view on how to design a character playwise then SNK does…By leagues.
A good example of this is Rock. Rock lost SO MUCH during his transition from Mark of the Wolves, and STILL ended up being a better character. He lost feint cancels, his kara cancelable command overhead, round winning damage off of his command throw, a faster Rage Run Dunk, the upper and lower body invulnerability during his AB attacks, his air chain, etc…But none of it mattered. He had very few good ways to establish the range he needed to be in to use his all of that wonderfull close range stuff, so it was almost obselete. So what does Capcom do? They remove all of it and gave him better attacks at mid range, like a much better crouching HK, a better fireball, and a drastically improved Hard Edge (Now usable as a poke). Now all of the sudden he’s a usable character because he now has effective moves outside of close range, making it possible for him to score a knockdown and eventually establish close range. Furthermore, they made attacks like his Rage Run shift, more then something to just spam and mindlessly cancel into. It has actual invulnerability now (It very much didn’t in MOTW), making is useful for baiting and punishing throw whiffs. He lost so much, and still ended up being a better character in CvS2.
As far as Kyo goes, he’s strictly better in CvS2 then he is in KOF, in every way. His normal attacks are strictly better, his special attacks are strictly better, and his overall play style makes more sense. KOF Kyo can’t use half of his special atttacks outside of combos, they end up being too risky at high level play. He’s completely dependant on low jumps to be effective, and frankly, he does nothing else in a match but low jump down + C (Keep in mind that the best versions of KOF Kyo were only good because they had more damaging options to go for if a low jump or empty low jump hit…That’s how dependant he is on low jumps). He has absolutely nothing else that works consistently for him. At the very least, CvS2 Kyo has more to work with, and he isn’t dependant on one jumping attack. He has better normals to work with, more ways to establish his needed position, and a batch of special attacks that at least have one or two uses for him outside of combos, instead of none.
Btw, auto guard is a bad system. It’s JUST INVULNERABILITY. It isn’t any different from invincibility. They do the same thing! Why people insist on bringing this up as a point when conscerning DPs is beyond me. CvS2 Kyo’s uppercut has REAL, honest to goodness invulnerability. It just happens to not hit anything directly on top of it. THAT’S the problem with the move (But it makes sense, why wouldn’t a character with such a strong offense not have a weak defense?).