Does neutral jumping kill Sakura's reset/mixup game?

sakura

#1

I played a Sakura online today who tried to get me with resets/mixups.

The minute he didn’t follow his EX Tatsu with an Otoshi but instead a LP, I knew what he was up to. However, instead of guessing which way I should block I merely held up on the joystick and lo and behold, I had enough frames to get off the ground with a neutral jump.

So does neutral jumping really kill this reset/mixup or was this guy just too slow with the next combo?

If it matters he tried to get me with a C.MK after the reset, does C.MK have really bad startup or will your opponent have enough time to jump regardless of the poke you decide to use?

Edit: Oh and sorry if this doesn’t deserve it’s own thread but … Yeah it’s already been made.


#2

c.MK if I remember correctly has 5 frame startup, c.LP and c.LK 3 frame startup and c.HP 4 frame startup. I think if he had done c.LP or c.HP he would have hit you before you could get off the ground, c.MK seems like a poor choice after the reset to me. Jumping will get you out of a throw attempt though but I think the likeliness is continued attack rather than throwing.

Worth testing though, I’ll have a play around in training mode and see what happens :slight_smile:

Edit: Interestingly enough jumping seems to get away from c.LP but not c.HP, might be partially due to timing, more testing is needed. Did it off the dash > LP > dash reset.


#3

There are two lp reset “heights” I use. This guy was probably hitting you with lp as you were closer to the ground…he can still dash under but now you’re already grounded and can jump easy. I use this for reversal happy players when I want to block. If he hit you higher you wont have time to jump.

Dunno, if that makes sense.


#4

It’s probably because its an AA attack, so it gets them on the way up.


#5

I’m pretty sure c.lk will snag any jump away attemps. In fact, any move that has a 3 frame start up will snag jump away attempts while the person is still on the ground. A move with a 4 frame startup may catch a person trying to jump away, but it will only do so just as he leaves the ground, resulting in an air reset.

edit: Just did some testing in training mode with Sakura and Zangief. Apparently 4 and even 5 frame startup moves can snag jump aways. (Not counting throws of course). More testing is in order but it would be nice if someone could verify this.


#6

Oh this makes a lot more sense, Sabre always started his strings with C.LK, C.LP, C.HP.

Good to know, thanks.


#7

Your jump takes a certain number of frames to get out, he didn’t time his attacks to catch you before the jump came out. Not too much else to it, neutral jumps can be caught, and if you are going to go for it you might as well backwards jump because her crouch HP will do fairly good as anti air for anything you drop on her, unless you are like cammy or something.

If you enter a dp with df, db, df, db (the final dp blocking the way you think you need to block), you will always get the dp regardless of side. In fact, you may well be able to focus attack into backdash as well, which would give you more time to look at the side, but risk one less hit of damage reduction, making his next combo stronger. Finally, as always, if you make him start blocking for fear of your dp, land into immediate throw, throw doesn’t care which side you are on. If you have a feel for the side she will land on, backdash is a very good option as well, as long as your character goes airborne during the backdash. Hmmm, I think that covers most of the options, the dp trick at the beginning also works for teleports. If there are any other escapes people have seen, it would be cool to learn!


#8

c.LK and c.LP are both 3 frame startups I believe, c.LP hits higher so stands to reason if c.LP can be avoided then c.LK can as well, but might just have been from my timing and I didn’t test with the j.LK reset either :stuck_out_tongue:
My test was Sakura vs Sakura too, characters get off the ground at different times (I think) so this might also effect results.

Sabre probably started with c.LK because it forces them to duck in order to block.

I found that mashing DF+PP D+PP DF+PP etc. got an EX Shou out to counter the reset, didn’t have to worry about which side either. Think if you catch someone with that they might be ready with a block the second time so more mind games will ensue but ultimately you’re taking some power away from the aggressor.

Edit: Well the only thing I can determine is it comes down to timing, I can get away from a c.HP if it isn’t fast enough. It seems like after a j.LK cross-under you don’t have time to catch a jumper with anything but if you don’t cross under you obviously have time to catch them. Dash LP dash under you have time for c.HP, not sure about the rest.


#9

No my friend. At the end of the day SF4 is all about mind games and mix ups. This is still a mix up.

So… you realised he was going to try something and you jumped straight up and he got punished. Okay cool.

But what if… he noticed you jumped straight up and had a feeling you might do it again?

Then he could simply do the lp, wait for you to jump up and the hit you with the anti air!

Same way players use block strings and sometimes stop half way and throw instead. These are all mix ups so no I don’t think it kills Sakura’s mix up game.

Sometimes I wait on purpose after a hit on the EX tatsu thing just to see if they whiff a shoryuken or something. Then I give them the full thing later :slight_smile:


#10

you cannot jump out of her mixups. for one, a good sakura player will throw out their attack before you land so you fall into it. keep in mind too that you have pre jump animations as well before you actually jump. it’s impossible to jump out just cuz of pre jump frames. if you ever jump out of the mixup, then the sakura horribly mistimed their attack.

and if you could jump out of the shit, this game would be really bad, cuz that means you would be able to jump out of anything in this game and it becomes “jumping is the ultimate counter”

anyways

closed